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[WTB] wanted mk 1 1.4 engine
#1
My 2002 MK1 Berlingo 1.4 engine has 248000 KM under it`s belt. Yesterday I paid almost 15000 kronor (£1500) to have the head gasket replaced this included a skim off the head and testing of the valve seatings and replacement of the cam belt and water pump.
I live in Norway and am really fed up with the Citroen garages here in Oslo. there are always problems apart from the appalling prices.
I would like to buy a second hand 1.4 petrol engine that I can recon so that it will be available when my present engine gives up the ghost.
I love my berlingo! I bought it from new and it is certainly the best all round car that I`ve ever owned.
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#2
Isn't there any other friendly local garages you can use?

That's not cheap, got to be cheaper than that out there!
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#3
http://www.nbfbildeler.no

The website is a front for most of the auto breakers in Norway.
Also, some of those on that site imports used parts from Sweden, so there should be some parts available...

Expect to pay 7500NOK or more for a decent one. And shipping is around the 1000NOK mark, too. (The curious can divide by 10 to get approximate £ values)

Be very careful to ask about which ECU it has(you probably want one with the same ECU model as you already have. Then you can be relatively certain it uses an identical loom and plugs. You don't want to move a loom across from one engine to another, but it's nice to be able to verify that it's OK, an well... sh!t happens) and whether it has the 'over the plugs' coilpack or the plug leads and coilpack sitting beside the engine.
It's NOT possible to fit the 'over the plugs' coilpack to the older 'side mount' model.
Also, it can be advantageous to have a HP reservoir(the plastic tube over the injectors) with the same number of fuel lines. Saves you from having to move it across when dropping in the 'new' engine. (The ones with two lines have the pressure regulator in the end of the reservoir, while the models with one line has the regulator integrated with the pump itself. I believe the two-line is an old model, possibly only 96/97)

Why did you have the gasket replaced and the head worked on?

The cambelt/water pump job is something that you could do at home, without too much difficulty. A kit costs about 50NOK.

A gasket replacement isn't impossible to do at home, either.(I managed... )
You just need a special socket and an 'angle torque' gauge.(In addition to a normal torque wrench)
In fact, it's an 'in car' procedure.
The only reason it can take more than an hour is that you have all the stuff on top of the engine that needs to be removed/replaced.
(A gasket kit with new bolts is silly cheap on eBay)
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#4
(25-06-2014, 09:10 AM)homeruk Wrote:  Isn't there any other friendly local garages you can use?

That's not cheap, got to be cheaper than that out there!

The Norwegian work culture is not as dedicated to giving satisfactory service as other countries. I have worked internationally in the oil industry for many years and have a lot of experience of the different work attitude of countries.
Norwegians are very laid back and tend not to exert themselves, don`t like overtime and regularly report in sick on Fridays. Apart from the usual cultural differences in driving attitudes and other things they are probably the nearest culturally to the UK and are much nicer than us!

I have tried several so called Citroen garages and none of them has given me satisfactory service I`m sad to say.
Alan

(25-06-2014, 11:01 AM)Gadgetman Wrote:  http://www.nbfbildeler.no

The website is a front for most of the auto breakers in Norway.
Also, some of those on that site imports used parts from Sweden, so there should be some parts available...

Expect to pay 7500NOK or more for a decent one. And shipping is around the 1000NOK mark, too. (The curious can divide by 10 to get approximate £ values)

Be very careful to ask about which ECU it has(you probably want one with the same ECU model as you already have. Then you can be relatively certain it uses an identical loom and plugs. You don't want to move a loom across from one engine to another, but it's nice to be able to verify that it's OK, an well... sh!t happens) and whether it has the 'over the plugs' coilpack or the plug leads and coilpack sitting beside the engine.
It's NOT possible to fit the 'over the plugs' coilpack to the older 'side mount' model.
Also, it can be advantageous to have a HP reservoir(the plastic tube over the injectors) with the same number of fuel lines. Saves you from having to move it across when dropping in the 'new' engine. (The ones with two lines have the pressure regulator in the end of the reservoir, while the models with one line has the regulator integrated with the pump itself. I believe the two-line is an old model, possibly only 96/97)

Why did you have the gasket replaced and the head worked on?

The cambelt/water pump job is something that you could do at home, without too much difficulty. A kit costs about 50NOK.

A gasket replacement isn't impossible to do at home, either.(I managed... )
You just need a special socket and an 'angle torque' gauge.(In addition to a normal torque wrench)
In fact, it's an 'in car' procedure.
The only reason it can take more than an hour is that you have all the stuff on top of the engine that needs to be removed/replaced.
(A gasket kit with new bolts is silly cheap on eBay)

Thank you for the information, is it possible to change the head gasket without special tools when the engine is not mounted in the car?
The reason for the gasket change was the oil leak and overheating and they showed me a head gasket that exhibited signs of rubber ring failure and gas leak into the water system.
I`ve found that the solutions provided by garages do not always solve the problem that needed fixing!
Alan
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#5
Get the TU5JP4 instead! Probably better fuel economy and power overall. Knowing how much they go for just buy the whole car and drive it back to Norway. There is a guy on here that sells one for 3 digits. And you get lots of spare parts win-win
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#6
The tools needed to replace a head gasket on a TU3JP (except the normal spanners and stuff) is a torque wrench, a 'torque angle gauge' and 'eTorx' sockets.
eTorx bolts looks like inverted Torx heads.
It's NOT possible to do this correctly without those tools.
Biltema codes are:
Angle gauge: 12-10254
eTorx sockets: 12-71112
I assume you already have a normal torque wrench.
(Can't really work on an aluminium engine without one.)

You probably want to buy a full gasket/bolt kit and not reuse the bolts.
(If you do reuse them, you need to very carefully measure them to verify that they haven't stretched too much. If one snaps off... it's a bit of a pain to get it out... Original length of the 1.4 bolts are 175.5mm, and if any are over 176.5mm, all should be discarded and a new set used.)

This is a 2002 model, so it probably has a 'proper' BSI under the dash, not just a fancy fusebox(the changeover was in 2000?)
Does it need to be reprogrammed if theres a 'new' ECU there?
If so, replacing the motor with a different model with a different ECU may become a bit of a faffle.
(With a similar TU3JP that has the same model ECU as the one already in the car, he can just reuse the original ECU directly on the 'new' engine if there's BSI problems)

Does the TU5JP4 have the same exhaust manifold as the TU3JP?
Most breakers just cut the downpipe instead of trying to unstick rusted bolts...
They're not always that careful about 'accessories' either.
The crankshaft sensor sits by the flywheel... The hole it sits in is in the bell housing. So when buying a motor you often end up without the sensor. So you may end up with a bell housing that has a hole that fits one model sensor, and have a connector for a different model sensor in the wiring loom.
(One of the reasons to go for an engine with the same ECU)

Does the old gearbox fit the TU5JP4 engine?
(According to the Gospel of Haynes, the TU3JP comes with a MA5, but the TU5JP series comes with BE4/5 gearboxes, so that probably means a 'new' gearbox, linkages and stuff, too)

If he wants to import a 'donor car' he'll probably have to cut it in half to avoid a lot of taxation...
(Yes, really. Weird rules here about stuff like that. Once upon a time, the ferries going between Norway and Denmark regularly had to repair the phone booths on the lower decks, replacing the perspex, because people had learned that if you fastened a sheet of transparent plastic behind the seats of a 911, it could be registered as a class of small van... The panel had to be in place before the car rolled off the ferry.)
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#7
(26-06-2014, 01:54 PM)Gadgetman Wrote:  The tools needed to replace a head gasket on a TU3JP (except the normal spanners and stuff) is a torque wrench, a 'torque angle gauge' and 'eTorx' sockets.
eTorx bolts looks like inverted Torx heads.
It's NOT possible to do this correctly without those tools.
Biltema codes are:
Angle gauge: 12-10254
eTorx sockets: 12-71112
I assume you already have a normal torque wrench.
(Can't really work on an aluminium engine without one.)

You probably want to buy a full gasket/bolt kit and not reuse the bolts.
(If you do reuse them, you need to very carefully measure them to verify that they haven't stretched too much. If one snaps off... it's a bit of a pain to get it out... Original length of the 1.4 bolts are 175.5mm, and if any are over 176.5mm, all should be discarded and a new set used.)

This is a 2002 model, so it probably has a 'proper' BSI under the dash, not just a fancy fusebox(the changeover was in 2000?)
Does it need to be reprogrammed if theres a 'new' ECU there?
If so, replacing the motor with a different model with a different ECU may become a bit of a faffle.
(With a similar TU3JP that has the same model ECU as the one already in the car, he can just reuse the original ECU directly on the 'new' engine if there's BSI problems)

Does the TU5JP4 have the same exhaust manifold as the TU3JP?
Most breakers just cut the downpipe instead of trying to unstick rusted bolts...
They're not always that careful about 'accessories' either.
The crankshaft sensor sits by the flywheel... The hole it sits in is in the bell housing. So when buying a motor you often end up without the sensor. So you may end up with a bell housing that has a hole that fits one model sensor, and have a connector for a different model sensor in the wiring loom.
(One of the reasons to go for an engine with the same ECU)

Does the old gearbox fit the TU5JP4 engine?
(According to the Gospel of Haynes, the TU3JP comes with a MA5, but the TU5JP series comes with BE4/5 gearboxes, so that probably means a 'new' gearbox, linkages and stuff, too)

If he wants to import a 'donor car' he'll probably have to cut it in half to avoid a lot of taxation...
(Yes, really. Weird rules here about stuff like that. Once upon a time, the ferries going between Norway and Denmark regularly had to repair the phone booths on the lower decks, replacing the perspex, because people had learned that if you fastened a sheet of transparent plastic behind the seats of a 911, it could be registered as a class of small van... The panel had to be in place before the car rolled off the ferry.)
Thank you for your helpful replies. I was driving through the centre of oslo yesterday and got engine stop but was able to pull into a bus lane. There was a strong smell of petrol and when I looked under the car there was a pool of petrol gathering there. Upon investigation I found out that the mechanic that had changed my head gasket had not pushed the petrol supply pipe fully home so that the pipe had vibrated free and was hanging loose. All that I had to do was to push the pipe fully home on the connection to the injection block to solve this problem. This reinforces my earlier comments about Norwegian service, there could have been a nasty fire and serious injury but happily there was no damage just the loss of some litres of fuel.
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#8
I hope you told the workshop off.
This is just so inexcusable.

That fitting makes and audible click when it locks on. And it takes just a second to tug on it to confirm that it is seated properly!
This system operates at 4BAR of pressure. If the connector isn't seated properly, it WILL pop loose fairly soon.

In your car there's 3 sources that can easily set the fuel aflame.
Exhaust manifold - but usually the connector on the fuel pipe points down, so the spray can't reach it...
Catalytic converter - Isn't directly underneath the pipe, but drips may reach it if you're doing a hard right turn.
Alternator - situated almost directly underneath the pipe...

Frankly, if I were you, I'd be talking to the people at Statens vegvesen in your area who deals with workshop authorisations. (I assume that the workshop did have a sign with the logo of Statens Vegvesen?)
While they won't revoke an authorisation on a complaint, they will take notice, and may decide to do some unannounced inspections to make certain that they follow the rules. (I know some of these guys, but none of those in or around Oslo. They can and will close down a shop if they don't like what they see.)
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#9
(04-07-2014, 11:24 AM)Gadgetman Wrote:  I hope you told the workshop off.
This is just so inexcusable.

That fitting makes and audible click when it locks on. And it takes just a second to tug on it to confirm that it is seated properly!
This system operates at 4BAR of pressure. If the connector isn't seated properly, it WILL pop loose fairly soon.

In your car there's 3 sources that can easily set the fuel aflame.
Exhaust manifold - but usually the connector on the fuel pipe points down, so the spray can't reach it...
Catalytic converter - Isn't directly underneath the pipe, but drips may reach it if you're doing a hard right turn.
Alternator - situated almost directly underneath the pipe...

Frankly, if I were you, I'd be talking to the people at Statens vegvesen in your area who deals with workshop authorisations. (I assume that the workshop did have a sign with the logo of Statens Vegvesen?)
While they won't revoke an authorisation on a complaint, they will take notice, and may decide to do some unannounced inspections to make certain that they follow the rules. (I know some of these guys, but none of those in or around Oslo. They can and will close down a shop if they don't like what they see.)
The mechanic that dealt with my car tried to be helpful so that I can`t bring myself to complain officially but I will give him a personal flea in his ear! Anyone can make a mistake, the problem is that this kind of mistake can be dangerous!
Unfortunately Norwegians don`t seem to respond to complaints well, it`s as if the whole country runs on an amateur basis and are doing their best to cope with the real world! This includes doctors, hospitals and Banks.
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