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Newbie wanting to buy first Berlingo
#1
Hey folks,

I'm new on here and there seems to be a hell of a lot of info to take in.
So :-) as the title says, I'm looking to get rid of my Daihatsu Fourtrak and buy a Berlingo. Now I've driven quite a few Pugs with the XUD lump in and know how good and reliable they are, but am unsure weather I should stick to that engine, or go for an HDI.
My driving will be varied, some local, some longer journeys. I have always driven diesels fairly hard(keeps them clean in my mind), but never until fully warmed up and never had any emisions problems on my Pugs come MOT time.

Can anyone tell me when the HDI's were introduced to the Berlingo and which one (1.6 or 2.0) is the more reliable fault free engine overall. I know and appreciate that it depends a lot on servicing, driving styles, abuse etc, but a general overall idea would be very helpful.
Also, DPF's, which HDI's had them and from when? I've read they were introduced in 2006. Is this right?
Also2, dual mass flywheels, which engines had them and from when if anyone knows?
ANY help/advice will be much appreciated.

So sorry for SOOOO many questions.

Will :-)
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#2
WOW!!
63 views so far and no one has any views or knowledge of which engine is more reliable and gives less problems.
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#3
WOW!!
63 views and no replies yet.
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#4
dont know the anwsers to most of your questions .its the 1.6hdi that has the DPF. i have a 2004 2.0hdi desire and find it to be a great little car. plenty of power when needed and returning best part 48 to the gallon. i keep it well serviced and havent had much in the way of problems with it ive put it through 3 mots the last being today and it hasnt faild any so i realy cant complane.....and i def would buy another.
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#5
Thanks Landcrab.
Is yours the 90hp or 110hp engine?

Will
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#6
I have a 2.0HDi Multispace 2004 model (I'm Northern_Mike from the Frenchcarforum that someone mentioned). It's done 104k miles. Just passed it's 4th straight MOT with only an advisory for the front tyres, which I've now replaced.

It's a great car. One of the best I've owned, and having owned over 100, including 260bhp Imprezas, Xantia Activas and Range Rovers, that's saying something. I've owned it 4 years and done around 55,000 miles in it so far. It had a new clutch in it when I bought it - the originals were a common failing with the springs seizing and making it very heavy.

Since then, apart from usual wear and tear bits -  it's needed nothing other than routine servicing and a timing belt kit with waterpump which I had done about a year ago at 85k. The belt was ok, but the waterpump was beginning to stiffen up when I examined it after removal. I service it myself, including oil for under £45. I think I treated it to a set of wipers recently too. Mine now wears slightly bigger wheels and tyres from a 2003 Citroen C5 which improves the ride and "handling" slightly, and I retrofitted cruise control and a Pioneer MP3 compatible CD player and replacement speakers front and rear behind the original grilles.

I believe the HDi came in around 2002.   I believe they're much better than the TD version, much nicer to drive, though not a great deal more powerful, they are more economical.  I bought this Berlingo because many years ago I had a 1997 plate MK1 from new as a company vehicle, I caned it everywhere and I really liked it a lot. Lucky to get more than 38mpg from it though, laden or unladen with IT equipment.    My current Berlingo returns  at least 45mpg day in day out, and with the cruise set to 65 on the motorway it will return over 50mpg. If you want to get a wriggle on, it'll cruise happily at 85-90mph, but the economy will take a hit down to about 38mpg as the aerodynamics are worse than the shed in my garden.

The 1.6HDi has the dreaded DMF and can suffer from lack of maintenance.  Have a google for PSA 1.6 Turbo failure or blocked oil pickup.  The fault is with the sump design, the fact there's a silly filter in the oil pickup to the turbo, and the EGR device.  Crud from the EGR builds up in the oil, can carbonize and block the oil pickup to the turbo (which has a small mesh filter in it). This destroys the turbocharger.  I believe a new unit is around £250+ fitting.  Unless I knew the oil change history of a 1.6HDi, I'd avoid one on that basis. Of course, if you get a cheap knackered one, providing you remove and clean the sump and remove the mesh filter in the pickup pipe forever, it should be fine once you have a new turbocharger fitted.

Multispaces with a Modutop *can* leak. Mine doesn't. I believe they can. It can be an expensive repair, though many just use plumbers mastic gob on them now and it stops leaking. I shall be going down that route should mine leak.

In all, great vehicles, not a sports car - but then it's not supposed to be.  A huge amount of space inside considering the length of the thing - with the seats flat I recently got 16 (yes, 16) suitcases, 5 handluggage bags, a passenger and other odds and ends in mine, then drove it 100 miles.   There's loads of storage space in the overhead bins and lockers with the modutop.

If you go for one (esp a MK2) , get one with aircon if at all possible, and/or tinted rear windows. They're like a greenhouse in summer with all the glass. Ours has AC, but is still gets warm inside quickly in the sun.

I've had two sets of drop links on it in 50k miles, and the left hand side has had a full suspension leg and bottom arm. I'd include that within "standard wear and tear bits".  They're not dear, and on the rough roads round here in South Berks have taken a real pounding.  It's had one full set of new tyres  - Matador MP44s on the original steel wheels, 185/65/15, which were ok but the fronts wore out in about 15k miles. It's now got Toyos on the front and Continentals on the rear and they seem to suit it, especially the Toyos, which I got in 195/65/15 size for less than £50 each fitted just after the MOT.

The electrics, especially in the steering column, can go awry. Check all the buttons and switches, including the horn work, and that the airbag light goes off.  Problems with the comm 2000 unit (the switch/multiplexing unit that contains the wiper and indicator stalk, as well as the horn and airbag connections) can cause all sorts of maladies. They can be repaired, but a new one is between £140 and £350 depending on which one Claude in the factory decided to fit to the vehicle after his lunch of cheese and a lot of claret that particular day...

If it were me buying another, I'd go for a MK2 2.0HDi Multispace Desire, with AC, as late as possible with a documented timing belt change, that drives straight, without knocks or rattles and in decent nick. I still think they're worth about £2000 or more for a good one.  I'd avoid the 1.9 old fashioned diesel or the petrol models. 2.0HDi all the way for me.  Even if they break, you can pick up all the "expensive" bits - HP fuel pumps, regulators, injectors off ebay for next to nothing these days.

I'd also budget £80-100 on top of whatever you pay for the car for a decent Lexia clone system - this is the Citroen/Peugeot diagnostic software and cable, which will save you a load of heartache and expense should you run into problems. It's a full software suite that can diagnose and test everything on  the car from airbag faults, to ABS, fuel injectors, cooling fans, EGR valve , engine sensors and various ECUs.   It's not a "wasted" expense to buy one as it'd immediately pay for itself if you needed even one diagnostic reading at a dealer.... and when you sell your Berlingo,  you can either sell the Lexia to the buyer as an extra, or sell it on the French Car forum to a forum member -they're always snapped up.

Where are you located? You're welcome to come and have a good look around mine to learn what to look for if you're anywhere near Reading or Heathrow..
2004 Multispace Desire HDi - "Bertie"
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#7
Hi Mike,
Thank you very much for a hugely informative reply. Very much appreciated.
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure whether I'm going to go for a van or a passenger version(multispace etc) as yet.
I have driven a couple of mk1's with the old XUD in, an excellent engine, just not the most refined or powerful. I have also driven a mk3 HDI hire van, but not sure if it was a 1.6 or 2.0 though. A friend of mine has a mk2(51 plate) 1.9d that I'm working on for him at the moment.
Sorry, I'm babbling on again Rolleyes

I guess that I will more than likely go for the van version, as I need to carry my mechanics tools quite often. 

After lots of reading, I am aware of the turbo/oil free/gauze filter issues on the 1.6hdi. But like you said, If it was possible to find one with known service history, that had the gauze replaced each time and the sump dropped to clean it/check the oil pickup gauze, I would possibly consider one.

The most reliable one though, is the 2.0hdi 8valve 90hp engine and that's the one that hasn't got either dual mass of DFP filter?

Will
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#8
Hi Will,

I definitely think the 2.0 8V HDi is the one to go for. The parts to repair, especially 2nd hand are easier to get than the old XUD ones, and cheaper - injectors, pumps, fuel pressure regulators, solenoids and so on. They are more economical, and I are a smoother and quieter on a long drive. There's other things like the timing belt interval being longer, the fact that if it does snap a timing belt it'll only wreck some rockers, not bend valves like the XUD does.. etc etc.

The right places with the right equipment can also re-map a 90 BHP 8v HDi up to 120BHP with no further modifications, which is handy, if that's your thing.

I love the old 8V HDi motor. I've had it in Xantias, this Berlingo and couple of C5s (both with well over 150k miles). I know of plenty of them with well over 250k on them with nothing other than regular servicing and replacement fuel pressure regulators (about £50). Great engine.

It's your choice whether you go for the van or car version. I haven't driven an HDi van, only the old XUD ones. I know the car version can fit loads of stuff in it with the seats folded - they flip forwards, then tip into the gap on the floor so the entire rear seat is folded double, vertical behind the two front seats, and the floor is rubber matted. If it were purely a work vehicle, I'd go for a van , but if you want to carry passengers and use it as a car sometimes, the Multispace is the one to go for. Tinted windows for security? Try both, and see what you think..


Hope that helps!

Mike
2004 Multispace Desire HDi - "Bertie"
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#9
Cheers Mike. All that info is a great help.
I think I probably will go for a van version because my wife has a VW Touran, so we don't need it for multiple passenger carrying.
Regarding remapping etc, I'm not really bothered about that, as long as it's well serviced and goes/pulls ok with a little bit of weight in it, then I'll be happy.

Thanks again
Will
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#10
Does anyone know if there's any difference in gearing between the 2.0hdi 90 van and a multispace with the same engine in?
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