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Starter - to remove and/or check - researched but unsure how to proceed.
#1
Hello all,

Thanks in advance if you can offer any advice.

I've been researching for hours why my 2.0 HDi won't start. She's been becoming more sluggish starting for a week with gradually more turns required to fire, last night would turn but not fire, this morning just a click and tonight nothing and nothing with jump leads across from another car.

The battery was at 12.4v tonight so I've put it to charge.

I've learned it's likely to be the solenoid, starter, or issues with power going round the curcuit. The earth from battery to chassis is clean. I tried running an earth from battery to engine block with a jump lead and no difference.

When I last tried to start I did so with the headlights on they didn't dim so from what I've read it seems power isn't reaching the solenoid. But, with the deteriation from sluggish to nothing rather than just straight click or nothing, I'm really unsure.

Q. Does anyone have any experiece to advise on most likely explanation?... It'd be great.

I've read up on tests to do with my multimeter to determine which issue it's likely to be. As far as I understand they're: 1. Voltage drop tests on a)current reaching solenoid connection from battery b) the earth, from body of starter motor to earth on battery. 2.voltage is reaching the solenoid through the ignition wire (s wire I think).

Q Do tests 1 & 2 need the ignition to be disabled in case it starts? (I don't know how to do this if that's so).
Q. Do I need to take the s wire off to test if voltage is reaching the starter there? (As I can't get to it to take it of if I do)

My big problem is I can't get to the starter. I might be able to poke meter probes down to touch the connections but it's not ideal and by Haynes it'd still leave me unable to remove the starter if need be. I read the air cleaner assembly and air intake ducts need to be removed but I just can't find any images or how-tos to show exactly which bits (there seems a lot in the way and Haynes is vague on this.) With no car I can't get anywhere to get axle stands or ramps so to test before I move on to organising help makes sense. Not to mention I don't just want to bumble into trying to replace the starter from underneath as it might be another problem. (I also read someone took it off from below and took the connections off but then couldn't get them back on.)

Q. Does anyone have any pictures or directions showing starter access and removal?
Q. Can it be removed and refitted from underneath alone?
Q. If I removed it from underneath without taking the connections off could I do the tests with it hanging about?

Big thanks on any help....... Heart

(My battery's charged to 13.8v! and reached trickle so I'll let it settle.)
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#2
My advise would be to change the starter motor - they are difficult to check as they test fine without load on them.

They are not that difficult to replace so a garage should only charge you an hours labor max.
[+] 1 user says Thank You to polar for this post
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#3
(20-01-2015, 06:23 AM)polar Wrote:  My advise would be to change the starter motor - they are difficult to check as they test fine without load on them.

They are not that difficult to replace so a garage should only charge you an hours labor max.

Cheers Polar. I still would like to test if power was actually getting to it as it could save work and possibly buying a part unnecessarily... but do I just change it from underneath or do I need access from above?
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#4
You can do then either way from the top or from the bottom - remember to disconnect the battery first!
[+] 1 user says Thank You to polar for this post
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#5
(20-01-2015, 12:58 PM)polar Wrote:  You can do then either way from the top or from the bottom - remember to disconnect the battery first!
Thanks again Polar. I squeezed probes in to test and power's getting to everything and the earth's ok so reckon it's the solenoid. Knowing I can just take the unit out from underneath without bothering with the top is a great help. Cheers Smile

... I got it out in the end! I ended up having to jack it and put it on a stand on one one side as it seemed like it'd only come out from underneath. To access from above a mechanic described to unbolt the fuel filter and move it aside and also remove the air cleaner. I'm learning loads.
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#6
mary i have a 2004 2.0 hdi and it was always a bit slow on spinning over. so i brought a new bosch battery (the biggest that would fit ) but it still remained slow turning over. it has never been very fast at starting first thing in the morning but sometimes better than others. i check the earth and other connections and all were fine. so i decided it had to be the starter so i looked around for one. i found one on ebay which was a heavy duty jobbie it was 1.8kw so i orderd one. WOW what a differance it burst into life instanly now no matter how cold it gets .and will start as good as any petrol car. i have done a few things to my car in the past but this has to be the best!! good luck with yours.
[+] 1 user says Thank You to landcrab for this post
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#7
(20-01-2015, 11:34 PM)landcrab Wrote:  mary i have a 2004 2.0 hdi  and it was always a bit slow on spinning over. so i brought a new bosch battery (the biggest that would fit ) but it still remained slow turning over. it has never been very fast at starting first thing in the morning but sometimes better than others. i check the earth and other connections and all were fine. so i decided it had to be the starter so i looked around for one. i found one on ebay which was a heavy duty jobbie it was 1.8kw so i orderd one.   WOW what a differance it burst into life instanly now no matter how cold it gets .and will start as good as any petrol car. i have done a few things to my car in the past but this has to be the best!!       good luck with yours.

Thank you landcrab that's a big help!

I've checked mine off the car following online tutorials and neither solenoid or motor seems to work... but then I got the fear my battery might just have lost cranking amps and didn't want to buy a new expensive starter in case I was wrong. I'm going to run another test to see if my battery can start another 2004 HDi... and if it does I think I'll know for sure.

Can you tell me which one the 1.8kw is you put on yours... like a part number or brand? And where you got it, for how much? I found an exact Bosch replacement online, to that which was on originally, for £55 online from 'Mister Auto'. My old one was tight to get out and I'm apprehensive I won't get a bigger one in... is there a lot of difference?

Loads of thanks Landcrab - it all helps build an informed picture and helps the confidence for sure Shy
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#8
hi the one i got from ebay was .......CITROEN BERLINGO & PICASSO 2.0 2.2 HDi DIESEL HIGH POWER NEW STARTER MOTOR 99>
eBay item number:
271538343557
i would recomend it to anyone when i reciveid it i counted the number of teeth and it had extra ones and the cog was larger,a freind said it wouldnt fit . so i called the company who supplyed it and he told me it was fine and was done for extra cranking power.well the differance was amazing .def the way to go... it was £69.95 with free post.. a lot cheaper than the bosch i was looking at. and a great service.
it is a bit longer. and a bit fatter. not by much .but it do fit fine. i found it easer to fit it from the top and the bottom. and removed a few hoses from the top to make it easyer to get at.
[+] 1 user says Thank You to landcrab for this post
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#9
(22-01-2015, 10:14 PM)landcrab Wrote:  hi the one i got from ebay was .......CITROEN BERLINGO & PICASSO 2.0 2.2 HDi DIESEL HIGH POWER NEW STARTER MOTOR 99>
eBay item number:
271538343557
i would recomend it to anyone when i reciveid it i counted the number of teeth and it had extra ones and the cog was larger,a freind said it wouldnt fit . so i called the company who supplyed it and he told me it was fine and was done for extra cranking power.well the differance was amazing .def the way to go... it was £69.95 with free post.. a lot cheaper than the bosch i was looking at. and a great service.
it is a bit longer. and a bit fatter. not by much .but it do fit fine.  i found it easer to fit it from the top and the bottom. and removed a few hoses from the top to make it easyer to get at.

Thanks again landcrab - info like that's what makes it possible to do it yourself!

Big cheers!
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