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B9 TU5JP4 Petrol Engine & BE4/5 Gearbox into M59 Berlingo
#1
Hello Everyone,


I own a 2004 build M59 Berlingo. It has been off the road with a dead engine for a couple of years but I'm now making a serious effort to get it back on the road.

My time with the Berlingo was a little traumatic. It was bought as a courier van. For the year and a half it was used for courier work it suffered a long list of failures, the worst of which being a burst heater core and overheat at 3-months which required a complete removal of the dash to fix & 2 weeks off the road. Other faults included dead indicator switch, whining gearbox from 80k, failed clutch, failed oil pressure & coolant temp sensors, locking then failed abs (never fixed), dead alternator, etc, etc.

I think I'm a pretty easy bloke to get along with and understand there are lemons that occur with all products. At the end of the day it is how the dealership responds to warranty issues that builds brand loyalty. I can't speak for the current Australian dealer network (which has been changed since then) but the one I went through was dire. I won't go through all the detail as it's ancient history. Suffice to say, I will never buy another new PSA product.

So why fix the vehicle? I'm strangely fond of it. It has a lot of good qualities. It was also me who killed it in the end by failing to replace the camshaft belt!

My plan is to resurrect my Berlingo with the more powerful 1.6L TU5JP4 engine and I believe, stronger BE4/5 gearbox.

In Australia we only got the M59 in 1.4L petrol form. Prices for the 1.4 are out of all proportion to its quality but the 1.6L TU5JP4 is plentiful & cheap ex-the sedan range and from the B9 Berlingo / Partner which is imported here in 1.6L guise.

I have bought a B9 TU5JP4 complete with BE4/5 gearbox, supplied with most of the parts needed to install. There are a handful of critical components missing & some issues to solve which I'm hoping the forum can help with.

Future posts will be less of a ramble. I intend for this to be useful for anyone else proposing a similar swap.

Cheers,

Mark
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#2
cant be much help unfortunately,but it'll bump it up to the top for you,good luck with it sir :-)
[Image: smokingdog-1.gif]

Berlingo First,75bhp 1.6hdi,58 plate....225k and counting.
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#3
Hello Mark welcome to the forum best of luck with your project  Smile
                                     Smile  It's too orangey for crow's It's just for me and my dog  Smile

                                                        Heart Heart Love a lot trust a few  Dodgy
 
                                                        

                                        
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#4
Hi Ian & Jed,

Thankyou for the kind wishes. I'm heavily into research related to mounting the engine & box at the moment. It isn't looking as easy as I had hoped. Of the 10 or so quite major mounting components I've checked I have part matches for only 2 in my pile of parts.

I gather the 1.6 petrol M59 is quite rare in the UK? Most of the activity in relation to the 1.6 petrol seems to be on Russian language forums & parts websites.

It appears that direct part for part options exist for the Xsara Picasso but that model is rare / non-existent in Australia I think. The DV/DLD diesel Berlingos appear to have the same mounts at the gearbox end which would get me part way but the M59 with diesel was not imported here. Anyone have any components lying around that they'd be happy to ship to Australia?

I have also looked at gear shift. They are rods on the M59 and are different (unsurprisingly) between the MA & BE boxed versions. In addition, the B9 Berlingo uses cable for shift. I may be able to rig up something using the BE9 cables.

Clutch is also a problem, something I stupidly didn't consider. It is cable on the petrol M59's but hydraulic on the BE9. My options are to replace the fork in the box with a cable one or arrange for hydraulic operation somehow.

This is going to be a much tougher job than I thought, especially given the lack of wrecks over here that I can call on for parts.

I will make a post over the weekend detailing some of what I've discovered and what I think I need to find. Hopefully a kind soul will be able to chime in with some advice.

Mark
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#5
I have now put plenty of research into the parts I still need to find for the swap with the following results:

- None of the TU3JP / MA5 mount components (bar the driver's side top "buffer") are directly usable with the TU5JP4 / BE4/5. At the least I need to obtain the driver's side top engine mount (body connection) & passenger side gearbox mount components.

- The driver's side top engine mount (engine connection) from the "B9" is a part for part match and will be used,

- Wrecking yard M59's with the TU5JP4 appear to be rare in the UK, plentiful in Russia & available in Germany, Poland etc. I haven't had a reply to any emailed parts enquiries bar one from a German ebay seller who's prices are good but with very high shipping (perhaps inevitable for one off components).

- The only other Citroen with exact match parts is the Xsara-Picasso equiped with TU5JP4 / BE4/5. These seem more common in the UK than suitable M59's.

Could anyone on the forum recommend a wrecker who might have an M59 or Xsara-Picasso and could supply a mounting components set to Australia?

My only other option is to buy the components new. It seems I could order new components on-line from "Midi Auto Lorient", here. Has anyone used them?

On a happier note my Chinese diagnostic tool has arrived so I will start on the electrical issues this weekend.
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#6
Most wreckers don't know what they've got. The reason the TU5JP4 appears rare is because it's available only for the glass version (passengers) and most vans in the breaker yard are white vans with 1.9d engine. In general people in UK stay away from big engines thinking they are less economical but the 1.4 is gutless and requires heavy foot, making the fuel economy suffer. Of course with these vehicles every body end up buying a diesel from new, hence why it seems rare. I have a friend with 206 from Australia that has the same engine as me, he always ask me about tuning ideas. What's bullshit is he paid a lot of money for it as it seems french cars are rare there. I can see why you are struggling for parts
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Kokain for this post
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#7
Hi Kokain,

Thanks for looking in on the thread. Does your vehicle have the TU5JP4?

French cars are rare here although numbers are higher than they were. I think a lot of that is because British cars held sway in the early days for smaller vehicles with Holden & Ford (and to a lesser extent, Chrysler) being the favourite for family cars. The Japanese pushed the British small cars out later. Recently, local car manufacturing has collapsed so who knows what will happen next?

I tried a couple more yards but got no replies. I think new parts will be the only option.

I'm in too deep to abandon this project but I realise now what a mountain I have to climb. There are many electrical questions still to be answered.

The only bright spot so far is that I think I will be able to use most of the existing cable clutch arrangement.
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#8
I feel your pain, normally nothing from B3 is compatible on the M59. My neighbour has one and all parts he orders never fit mine. Just the other day he wanted to flog some top mounts to me but suspension is no match. Yes I have M59 with TU5JP4 engine and BE4 gearbox. I suppose if you have any questions I could try and help out. Best way is to search around online and hope for the best
http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair-206/
http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair-206...bbmek3.htm
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#9
There are a few 1.6 TU5JP4 around in the UK, but as mentioned they are Multispace MPV models like mine.

On the plus side, it's been a very good engine. Mine has done just under 120K, 80K of which has been on LPG following conversion and it still runs fantastic.

There a citroen dealer near me that seems to sell genuine parts on ebay. They might be worth a try although I am sure the shipping costs are going to be the biggest problem:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271844115352?_...EBIDX%3AIT
[+] 1 user says Thank You to tucker for this post
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#10
Hi Everyone,

Thought I should chime in with a progress report.

Things are moving forward. After no less than 40 emails to ebay sellers, gumtree sellers & wreckers (and with almost as many non-responses) I finally got the gearbox mounting bracket from ebay seller smartparts2014. He also sent me the centre mount which I may or may not end up using and a couple of other minor items. I've bought a fair bit of the remaining mounting components new from French Citroen dealer Midi Auto Lorient, which have just shipped.

I thought it was also time to show some photos of things as they stand. I've completely removed the old engine/gearbox, the gear change mechanism and the whole front of the dash (in an effort to understand the electrical requirements).

I've made some decisions & progress in relation to the electrical stuff. I tried the B9 Johnson branded BSI first which refused to talk to the rest of the Berlingo. The B9 doesn't use the COM2000 indicator stalk so this was always likely to be a no go, now proved. As I also don't have the correct key to complete the security loop for using the B9 electronics anyway, I've abandoned that route. Instead, I bought a Peugeot 206 Siemens BSI, ECU, ignition barrel & key from ebay seller lolbean. My thinking was that as the 206 BSI & my original TU3JP BSI were both Siemens and both appeared to be the same pattern for socketing, there was at least a chance that it would work. I'm pleased to say that the 206 BSI talks fine to all of the components I can currently test it with. All lights, instruments etc come up as expected. I believe that the odometer sets itself to the highest distance in the computer chain. My original kilometer value has been retained so it would appear that these electronics are less than 160,000 km's old.

Another reason for choosing this particular kit was that the ecu is a Bosch ME7.4.5. Most of those for sale with the Siemens BSI are ME7.4.4. As the B9 uses an ME7.4.5 and the South Australian regulations require engine swaps to maintain the emission standards of the donor engine and not to be less than the emission standards of the vehicle itself, then I really had to find an ME7.4.5 so as not to cause a fuss. This stuff is a regulatory minefield!

I'm going to fit the B9 gear shift components and I'm going to mount them the B9 way, upright & up high. This will greatly simplify the whole gearbox hookup and means I can use all of the gear shift components I have.

Still to decide on clutch arrangements.

Mark

   

   

   

   
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