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Fuel sender/guage wiring!!
#1
Hi folks
I am looking for a wiring diagram showing wire colours for the fuel tank sender unit that lead up to the dash fuel gauge. My fuel gauge will not work and I have replaced the fuel tank sender unit which has made no difference. I can get resistence at the sender unit and at the connection at the pug at the tank, I can also get the fuel gauge to rise by earthing the red wire at the plug at the tank. I am now thinking that the earth wire going to the gauge is faulty but all the wires in the back of the dash clocks do not match the wires at the tank.
Any ideas???
The van is a 2004 1.9D
Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
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#2
(22-08-2011, 02:20 PM)Roly Wrote:  Hi folks
I am looking for a wiring diagram showing wire colours for the fuel tank sender unit that lead up to the dash fuel gauge. My fuel gauge will not work and I have replaced the fuel tank sender unit which has made no difference. I can get resistence at the sender unit and at the connection at the pug at the tank, I can also get the fuel gauge to rise by earthing the red wire at the plug at the tank. I am now thinking that the earth wire going to the gauge is faulty but all the wires in the back of the dash clocks do not match the wires at the tank.
Any ideas???
The van is a 2004 1.9D

Can you Provide more details please

Vin No:
RPO No: ( 5 Digits,this is on a Sticker it mine is 09804)
Transmission
ABS: Yes or No
EPS: Yes or No

I will then sort you a diagram/ info out



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#3
Hi BlueBingo

Vin No:VF7GBWJYB94151144
RPO No:Sorry I have searched the whole engine bay, drivers and passangers door frames and cannot find anything.
Transmission: Manual
ABS: Yes
EPS: No

It might jump out at me in daylight
Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
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#4
Firstly follow this link & do a BSI reset:

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?co...ot_process

It looks like fuel Gauge circuit is the same on a 1.9 2004 & my 2003 2.0 HDi
So have attached diagrams

Firstly your gauge sender is not connected directly to the Fuel Gauge on the instrument panel.

The fuel sender is item 1211

From the Block Diagram

Wire M432 (Coloured green/yellow) in harness 51 J is the ANALOGUE EARTH to the sender.
Wire 430 (Coloured Yellow) in Harness 51 J is the fuel level signal

Where harness 51 j connects to Harness 46 HAB at plug connection 1C J6

Wire M432 Connects to wire 4315 (Coloured green/yellow).
Wire 430 Connects to wire 433(coloured red)

These 2 wires connect into Harness 10PR at connection 1c 11

Wire 4315 remains Yellow & connects to the BSI at Plug 40V Pin 15.
Wire 433 (Colour changes back to Yellow )& Connects to the BSI at 40V pin 16.

The BSI converts the Analogue(Resistance) signal of the fuel sender into a digital signal which corresponds to the fuel level read by the sender this is transmitted digitally thru wires 9004 & 9005 to the Fuel Gauge (item 4) the fuel gauge will display a fuel level corresponding to this signal
Wires 9004 & 9005 are in the Vehicle Area Network (V.A.N)

The ANALOGUE EARTH is not the same as Chassis Earth don`t confuse them.
It looks as thou you have a high resistance in one of wires to sender proberbly M432/4315

If you know someone with Lexia they can test your fuel gauge indicator indepentently of the sender.


Hope this helps let us know how you get on



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[+] 1 user says Thank You to BlueBlingo for this post
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#5
Cheers BlueBingo
Im working late all this week so its a job for the weekend, I will let you know how I get on.
thanks again
Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
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#6
        Right I have reset the BSI unit and still no difference :brickwall:

I think I have located the right wires going from the BSI unit to the plug in the back of the instrument panel - 9004 (orange) and 9005 (pale blue). I have tried to see if the wires make a circuit from the plug in the BSI unit to the plug in the Instrument panel but I am getting nothing at all from either wires, have I got the right ones??

The wires marked with the blue tape are the wires that I am working with.

Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
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#7
(29-08-2011, 07:07 PM)Roly Wrote:  Right I have reset the BSI unit and still no difference :brickwall:

I think I have located the right wires going from the BSI unit to the plug in the back of the instrument panel - 9004 (orange) and 9005 (pale blue). I have tried to see if the wires make a circuit from the plug in the BSI unit to the plug in the Instrument panel but I am getting nothing at all from either wires, have I got the right ones??

The wires marked with the blue tape are the wires that I am working with.

I dont think the problem is the wires in the picture because when you shorted the red wire to earth this gave a low resistance analogue signal to the BSI, the BSI then converted this analogue reading into a digital signal(Multiplexing) which it transmited thru wires 9004/9005 which are V.A.N(Vehicle Area Network) to the instrument panal, the instrument panal then converted this digital signal back to an analogue signal which actually moved the gauge to full !

I have included a wiring legende in pdf format for you so you can check the colours. Do you know anyone with lexia as I have just tested my gauge / sender with Lexia if you look at the measurement picture my fuel sender is giving a impedence of 266 Ohms at a displayed reading of 9.75 lites which is just over 2 Gallons my fuel gauge is just above 1/8 full.

What resistance are you getting between wires to sender 4315 & 433 when disconnected at the BSI as stated Lexia is reading the resistance the BSI see`s from the sender, mine is at 266 ohms between these wires for the corresponding fuel level read by the sender.
Try disconnecting battery,with BSI reset procedure,allow time for airbags to shutdown, unplug BSI plugs and check resistance of wires at at this point.(If you have about 2 Gallons in tank you should get resistance similar to mine) if you have got very high resistance or open circuit reading with multimeter this will be your problem, then reconnect battery using BSI reset procedure
Have also included a picture of Lexia screen for fuel gauge test when you run this test the gauge is moved to ensure it goes to full on the gauge.
My next buy or Xmas pressy is an Automotive Oscilloscope £200 + off ebay when I get this I`ll then be able to test V.A.N / C.A.N lines.




Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       

.pdf   Wiring Legende.pdf (Size: 88.79 KB / Downloads: 14)
2003 Citroën Berlingo 2.0HDi Multispace Desire
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#8
Right disconnected the battery, with BSI reset procedure, allow time for airbags to shutdown, unpluged BSI plugs and checked the resistance of wires at at this point - NOTHING!! :brickwall: went back to the plug at the tank NOTHING!! :brickwall: it was working the last time I replaced the tank and have no idea why I cannot get any resistance :censored:
I really did think I could fix this but I think it is time to give in, I have already given a mechanic over £100 for the work done to the tank already and dont feel much like giving away any more of my really hard earned cash.
I will try to find someone in N. Ireland that has Lexia, thanks for all you effort Bluebingo, you seem to have some trick equipment about.
Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
Reply
#9
(30-08-2011, 11:28 AM)Roly Wrote:  Right disconnected the battery, with BSI reset procedure, allow time for airbags to shutdown, unpluged BSI plugs and checked the resistance of wires at at this point - NOTHING!! :brickwall: went back to the plug at the tank NOTHING!! :brickwall: it was working the last time I replaced the tank and have no idea why I cannot get any resistance :censored:
I really did think I could fix this but I think it is time to give in, I have already given a mechanic over £100 for the work done to the tank already and dont feel much like giving away any more of my really hard earned cash.
I will try to find someone in N. Ireland that has Lexia, thanks for all you effort Bluebingo, you seem to have some trick equipment about.

Hi Roly
It looks like the sender has gone open circuit,was it a new one you`ve had fitted ?

It might not hurt if you walked away from problem for a few days!
I put £20 of fuel in today and checked again with Lexia
Fuel gauge was now reading a needles width above 3/8
Lexia showed fuel sender impedance was 212 ohms
Lexia showed displayed fuel level of 24.56 litres.

If you feel like another go at it try following
Disconnect battery r.e BSI procedure/airbags.
Disconnect BSI plugs,unplug fuel sender at tank.
Short out wires at plug in the harness to sender and measure resistance between wires 4315 & 433 at BSI this should be very low.
If resistance is OK you could now try the following with a 220 ohm resistor £0.59 from Maplins

http://www.maplin.co.uk/7-watt-wirewound...code=L220R

Measure & record the resistance value it will be 220 Ohms + or - 5%
Crimp a 1/4 inch female faston connector onto one tail of the resistor, push this onto one of the blades of a 3 Amp automotive fuse.Crimp another 1/4 female faston connector onto a short piece of insulated wire,fit this faston onto other blade of fuse
Now short out the fuel sender plug in the harness with the above.If you measure wires again at BSI you should get a reading a little higher than you recorded .
If you are getting a good resistance reading refit plugs to BSI
Leave resistor assembly in place ,reconnect battery as per BSI procedure.
Turn on ignition and you should get a fuel gauge reading around 3/8.
If O.K turn ignition off and remove resistor.





2003 Citroën Berlingo 2.0HDi Multispace Desire
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#10
So after being defeated, would you believe I took the fuel tank out again today :censored: managed to get resistance reading from the fuel sender when it was out of the tank and when I replaced it into the tank it was still working. Refitted everything and still the fuel gauge read empty :brickwall: I was speaking to a car electrics fella and he seamed to think that their was an earthing problem and to T into the earth wire and make sure it is screwed onto a really good earthing point on the van, :woop: break out the beers :woop: it worked Confusedunny: my shitroen berlingo has just been made into a citroen berlingo :lol:
Roly

2004 Berlingo 600 Enterprise
Confusedafesex: If in doubt flat out!!Confusedafesex:
Reply


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