Possible destroyed engine

[ntm1275]

After a previous thread from a couple of days ago about my clutch going, I now have a more serious problem.

While half way along on my journey, the car suddenly lost power and ground to a halt with a 'anti pollution fault' on the dash

When I lifted the bonnet, there was a strong smell of burning oil, and when I inspected the oil, the plastic tip of the dip stick has curved itself and the oil filler cap had almost melted.

After a brief period on congestion on the motorway, I can only assume that the pressure in the cooling system rose and blew the unfastened pipe of its mounting

There was no indication that this had happened as the temperature gauge stayed at about 90 degrees

The engine has obviously boiled itself (possibly catastrophically), and after it had cooled down and I refilled it with water, there was a couple of mm of oil floating on top of the water in the expansion tank

So my first thought is that through the overheating, the head gasket has blown

The car does start and doesn't sound rough, but does blow out clouds of smoke out of the exhaust when revved, so I'm hoping that there is nothing terminaly wrong with the engine

My questions to the good folk here are:-
1. How does the 1.6 HDi engine cope with a serious overheating issue - do the heads and block tend to warp with extreme heat and if this engine has wet liners (don't know if it has) would the rubber seals have also melted with the heat
2. Are there other areas that could have been affected apart from the head gasket
3. As the oil has virtually been boiled to death, is there a risk that things like the turbo may have been affected
4. And anything else that any body can think of

Any help is much appreciated

[bikergraham]

I feel really sorry for you,this has obviously put a damp squid on your holiday.It sounds like the guy who very kindly worked all those hours for you to get the clutch sorted out didnt do a final check due to him wanting to go home to his bed,mmmmm. Wouldnt you have seen the steam when the hose let go ? Ive had a few hoses go in my time and they are very obvious when they do go the amount of steam is unbelievable.It does sound to me like a major problem for you and in my opinion its an engine out job and a major strip,if its got that hot you will never know how much damage has been caused without a professional engineers inspection.I would say at least for now that you would be advised to assume your engine is terminal.I know thats something you dont want to hear.I think your first step is to return to the garage that did your work,and the last resort would be the warranty,i question if they would be liable due to the possibility of the fault being poor workmanship,its not mechanical failure.I do wish you the best,please keep us posted.

[Opensauce]

If the hose just blew off then warning light would come on and car go into limp mode which appears to be what happened. Temp gauge would not rise because water was lost not overheated. Running engine with no water for even seconds will set up all sorts of stresses and could cause distortion, these engines are highly stressed. Best bet is to refill with water and antifreeze, change oil and filter and see how it goes, could well have shortened life of components though. Garage appears to be liable here and you hope they admit their mistake. White smoke from exhaust does suggest leaking head gasket.

Problem though is that if after oil and water change car appears to be going ok, garage will insist that is good enough. Perhaps best bet if car is running ok is to trade it in asap.

[bikergraham]

If the hose just blew off then warning light would come on and car go into limp mode which appears to be what happened. Temp gauge would not rise because water was lost not overheated. Running engine with no water for even seconds will set up all sorts of stresses and could cause distortion, these engines are highly stressed. Best bet is to refill with water and antifreeze, change oil and filter and see how it goes, could well have shortened life of components though. Garage appears to be liable here and you hope they admit their mistake. White smoke from exhaust does suggest leaking head gasket.

Problem though is that if after oil and water change car appears to be going ok, garage will insist that is good enough. Perhaps best bet if car is running ok is to trade it in asap.

oh,Opensauce,  im sorry but i really dont think that "trading the car in" is the answer,not only that but its ,um, unethical as well as i think nowadays illegal to lie about the condition of your sale item,im sure you didnt mean that. Personally i would say in my opinion anyway it would cost less,assuming you were going to have to put your hand in your pocket,to put in a complete recon engine than to sell the car,taking into account depreciation ,profit margin etc from a garage to buy in and again to have to fork out a second lot of profit that would need to be found to buy again from a dealer and even then are you buying a genuine good car or one thats been " passed on " by someone with an engine problem.Mmmmmm I rest my case. If you have to suck it in then go to a reputable engine specialist for a replacement recon,its very often cheaper that way than to pay labour for a rebuild.Unless you can find a right off in a breakers yard with a good low mileage engine ,they will sometimes do a part exchange simply for the scrap metal !!!

[Opensauce]

My advice was to op. Unless garage is prepared to fork out for a new engine supplied from Citroen UK then I would not trust a 'recon' as far as I could throw it. If the garage admits it is at fault and plenty would not then they are going to try to fix this as cheap as poss, perhaps a new head gasket? How good might that be? From what the op writes, the only sure way to make this car good again is a complete factory fresh engine and turbo, heaven only knows the cost of that so it probably ain't going to happen.

As stated, best advice if they get the car running properly is to get shot asap.

[Gadgetman]

The oil indicates a blown head gasket. That's fixable...
The head itself may be damaged, and that's not that easily fixed...
(Surface grinding, preplacing valve guides, possibly warped camshaft. It's all specialist work.)

Bearings deep down in the engine may also be damaged, and then you're way past the cost of a recon engine.

It all depends on how long it was running without coolant and how hard it was working while doing that.
(The fact that the dipstick was damaged says 'too long and too hard' to me)

[ntm1275]

Update

Car is now home and after my trip away I've been able to assess the situation better

As it stands now
1. The car starts (only left it running for about 20 seconds)
2. The engine does not sound rough when running
3. There was no blue/black/white smoke when I gave the throttle a quick blip (it revved cleanly as well)
4. During the brief 20 seconds of running, the cooling system was already pressurised (water started to overflow from the expansion tank when I tried to undo the cap
5. Oil still present in the expansion bottle
6. Big red STOP on the dash has gone out
7. The 'Anti Pollution Fault' on the dash has gone out
8. The 'Engine Management' light on the dash has gone out

As the cooling system is getting pressurised after 20 seconds of running, I'm going to assume that this is combustion gases getting into the system from a possible failed head gasket (best case scenario)
There is also a measurable amount of internal engine air that is coming out of the oil filler hole when I remove the cap

[Opensauce]

Could be head gasket or cracked head. What does the garage who did your clutch say? Are they admitting liability? The cylinder head will have to come off so obviously major work will be required. Its a really horrible situation for you and short of fitting a brand new engine its difficult to see how one could be certain that the car could be restored back to what it was.

[Gadgetman]

Definitely the head gasket. There's no way the cooling system should be pressurized in 20 seconds.
The hot oil smell is also worrisome, because if oil gets too hot it loses its lubricating properties, and that means bye bye bearings(Not immediately, of course, but the extra wear will take its toll ). It's not good for valve guides or camshaft, either.
Isn't there an oil temp sensor on this engine?

[bikergraham]

I would agree with both the above comments,in my opinion if this car was mine i would be wanting to at least remove and strip the engine and would seriously be considering replacing it.I remember many years ago having a similar problem with a motorcycle engine which for all intense and purposes sounded fine ,but when stripped ,the heat had turned the con rods and crankshaft all the colors of the rainbow ,it turned into a complete rebuild.I dont wish to put the mockers on things for you and this may sound a little harsh but i think you may be trying to stick your head in the sand.Sorry,thats my opinion.