big starting problem

[bikey]

Hi all.

Thanks for your continuing advice.

"When you say engine "does not splutter" , what color is fumes ? Black , white of nothing, just air ?"

 I didn't notice any sign of firing yesterday when cranking the engine over. (no easy start).

Will try again to get rid of the bubbles this morning and have a good check for fumes, my friend coming over to help.

Good idea about the fuel pressure reading , I'll try that as well.

The bulb does pump up when pressing it, but there is a crease in the rubber which stays when let go.

Next plan will be to try the sensor cleaning as advised.

What is getting me, is why the headlights are coming on, is this part of the warning light system? It doesn't help with the battery level when you're trying to start the engine. I've noticed a few posts where the headlights come on, coupled with a failure to start. 

Best Regards,
Mike

[cancunia]

Some random thoughts.. It is certainly odd that the Headlights come on, and it's what lead me to think that it may be BSI related. Do you have a spare key without a remote fob? Just thinking there might be an immobilizer issue. Do the warning lights still come on?

Removing the fuse that feeds the headlights would stop the battery drain. I wonder if the lights coming on is somehow preventing the BSI reset from working properly.

[bikey]

Hi again. 

Just to summarise,

I've been letting the system go into eco mode (lights all go out then), before disconnecting the battery using the quick release clamp on the negative terminal. I then connect the battery charger.

After charging, I disconnect the charger then reconnect battery.

Then, either manually opening the door or using the fob causes the lights to come on, won't start. I then close the door and wait for the lights to go out again

The fob isn't operating the locks now. so popping out for a fresh battery to try. I do have a spare key but it has a fob and there's no battery in it, so I'll stick one in that to try as well. 

Then, I'm going to try the headlights fuse idea. If no go then it's the fuel route, as previous post.



All the best,

Mike.

[brajomobil]

Please try with another key like Cancunia suggested.
Maybe is was only immo issue all the time.

If by starting engine there is no "color in fiumes" that means
there is no fuel coming to engine. No fuel can be related to immobilizator also.

For head lights comming on , you can enable/disable that option with Lexia

Best regards,
brajomobil

[bikey]

Hi all.

will try the other key tomorrow morning. Had a day off it due to hospital appointment.

Best Regards,
Mike.

[bikey]

HI again.
Just tried the spare key with no battery in and for a while there were no warning lights coming on. I pumped up then pressed the fuel bulb hard for thirty seconds (it was soft at first and still some air in the lines.), and tried a start. No go, and looked like just air coming out of the exhaust.

Then the warning lights came on as before.

Code 1351 has added itself back to go with 1350 now.

This might have some relevance, I connected the torque reader up to check the fuel pressure and saw that that sensor was not available. ( no star by it in the list) but I'm sure it was there before.

If the problem is fuel pressure or the sensor, would this cause the immobilization? Just thinking that it might be to prevent dry running of the injector pump. ( wild guess.)

Best Regards,
Mike.

(sorry brajomobil, you already answered the first part of the last paragraph)

[cancunia]

I did a bit of digging on 1351, and it looks to be the glowplugs not drawing any current.
Post #8
http://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-4725.html
"The Lexia3 read out - Permanent Fault Pre-Heat Relay Supplied & heater plugs never supplied."

That fits with your extra wiring from the previous owner. Did you have the glowplug button pressed when trying to start? Just guessing, I wonder if the ECU is not allowing fuel into the engine as it thinks the glowplugs are not working?

The injector pump runs from the cambelt iirc so it'll turn regardless.

Back to brajomobil's idea above about the Fuel Pump Relay /Sensor, maybe that's not letting fuel in, and maybe that's why the OBD reader can't see anything.
I don't know if it's possible / advisable to test if there's fuel getting to the injectors on a common rail system by disconnecting the input to an injector, or if it's possible / advisable to take an injector out and test it when connected. Maybe someone else on here can comment.

This may be helpful, although it's for a running engine:

http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/engi...est-20757/

[bikey]

Great work, had a look at the links:

" P1350 Fuel level sensor B Intermittent/Bypass line monitor / SID 801 - Pre/Post heating relay circuit - Short or Open circuit, including Pre-Heat plugs

P1351 IDM input circuit Malfunction/Ignition coil control circuit High voltage"

Regarding P1350,
I noticed an in line fuse on the added heater plug bypass, I'll check this.
I've seen the heater plug relay tucked down behind the nearside headlight. Wondered what that was before. Although there is that bypass, I'll take a look at that as well. I'm not sure how the bypass is wired and I'd like to fix it properly if I can.

-Just to add that the previous owner had new glowplugs fitted so presumably they are ok.

P1351,
"IDM input circuit Malfunction"
Perhaps this relates to the FPR.

Going back out into the cold now to take a look.

Best Regards,
Mike.

[bikey]

Hi again.

Had a look at the heater plug relay, the in line fuse for the bypass wiring was intact, I could see that the pushbutton and fuse had been wired from the positive terminal of the battery to a thin white wire coming from the back of the relay plug, with a thin grey wire from the plug going to earth. (I might have the colours the wrong way round there.)
Those two wires originally came from the loom and had been cut. I found the two ends from the loom and taped them up. The relay didn't look like it had ever been changed so I plan to fit a replacement and connect it as original to see if it will work normally.

While I was looking in that area I found another black box clipped behind the air filter. This had two green relays which I took out and contact cleaned, and two 40A fuses which were ok. It looks like those two thin wires mentioned above came from this box, so maybe one of the relays is involved in the glowplug circuit.

The next job was to take the FPR off the side of the pump. This is screwed in with a big hexagon. I couldn't get a spanner in there. Removed the sensor plugs and a metal bracket that was in the way, but the metal feed pipe from the pump to the rail needs to come off. I had to stop there as it was too cold and I wasn't really sure if it was ok for the pipe to be removed.

Now I'm thinking, crack on tomorrow, take pipe off, remove FPR, clean it, reassemble everything then try to bleed the air out by loosening the furthest injector union and squeezing the rubber bulb. Does this seem like a plan?

Best Regards,
Mike.

[cancunia]

Is this the part with the big hex end? If so, go easy as they are not cheap!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C5-XSA...1027053679

Can you crank the engine with the injector union off or the the leak back union off to see if fuel is pumped out?