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Central locking locks but won't unlock
#1
I bought my July 2005 Berlingo Multispace a month ago (M59 2.0 Hdi). The central locking will not unlock, but it locks perfectly. I took the car to the local Citroen dealership who, after having it for a day, said they could not find the fault, but suggested it was faulty wiring to or from the BSI.

I have gone through all the tests and resets suggested on this forum, but nothing has changed.

There are some (probably) significant factors. The doors lock perfectly when using the remote key. The key battery is fine. The receiver also clearly works as the side repeater lights flash briefly when both the lock and unlock buttons on the key are pressed. The snag is the unlock process seems to stop there. I have also tested the door locks by applying 12 volts via the rear door contacts. They lock and, by reversing the polarity, unlock reliably, so the locks are not the problem. All fuses are also intact.

I suspect there is some sort of polarity changer in or near the BSI, possibly a relay or a solid state device. Does anyone know how this (polarity reversal) is achieved? Burnt out contacts on a changeover relay would cause a problem like this. The dealer looked for wiring damage but found none. This does not surprise me. I cannot find much in the way of information about the BSI, except that they are complex and frequently cause problems. The Haynes manual is not much help. Is it worth trying another dealer? Will they just tell me they can't find the fault?

The button on the dash does exactly the same as the remote key. Press it once and all the doors lock. Press again and the repeater lights flash but the locks stay locked - no clunks or other noises.

I know there are some good brains available on this forum and I would appreciate any suggestions. I have a reasonable knowledge of electrics and some test equipment (multimeter etc).
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#2
Hi, according to the drawings there two relays in the Bsi which control the locking and unlocking. Both of these are normally closed to earth.
Which these relays are on the board I do not know yet - but hoping to get details soon. Don't think this is a connection problem as it uses both relays to open & lock. (One operates while the other stays closed to earth and vice versa). See if you can hear a relay "clicking" when you are in the car and operating the function that doesn't work.
I can't believe the dealer couldn't diagnose this even to say the Bsi is Faulty. Be carful when you are back feeding the locks as there is always a risk of blowing something in the Bsi.
Let me know if you can hear the Clicking. :thumbsup:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
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#3
(21-02-2012, 08:31 AM)Rustscrat Wrote:  Hi, according to the drawings there two relays in the Bsi which control the locking and unlocking. Both of these are normally closed to earth.
Which these relays are on the board I do not know yet - but hoping to get details soon. Don't think this is a connection problem as it uses both relays to open & lock. (One operates while the other stays closed to earth and vice versa). See if you can hear a relay "clicking" when you are in the car and operating the function that doesn't work.
I can't believe the dealer couldn't diagnose this even to say the Bsi is Faulty. Be carful when you are back feeding the locks as there is always a risk of blowing something in the Bsi.
Let me know if you can hear the Clicking. :thumbsup:
Thanks for your quick reply. I note from the Haymes manual there appear to be 2 relays but I know this can sometimes be achieved using solid state devices. I haven't had the BSI out yet to have a look.
Re feeding current back to the BSI, I did realise this and only applied the 12v to the door itself which at the time was isolated from the BSI as it was open. I thought it might be possible for a connection to exist even when open but took the risk as it seemed unlikely. I have had a close listen in the area of the BSI and cannot hear any clicks during the unlocking process. There may well be clicks from the relay(s) during locking but the clunk of the locks operating would drown it out.
One thing I have noticed is that the side repeaters flash briefly when the remote unlock is pressed but not if the interior button is pressed. I suspect the flashing may be an indication that the immobiliser has been disarmed so perhaps that's not too surprising.
Thanks for your comments re the dealer. Maybe I will try another.
So, arising from your comments I guess the next stage is to look at what drives the relays. Mike

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#4
Information 
If your going to open up the BSI you need to follow back these two lines on socket "PH2" ((16vGR) which stands for 16 pin, Grey connection), pin 13 and pin 15. These go to relays R6 & R6. Which ones these are on the board though I do not know. This will have to wait until I take my unit out again!
Have a look at this, there's some pictures of the Bsi.

http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=1619

Let us know how you get on. :thumbsup:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Rustscrat for this post
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#5
(21-02-2012, 10:33 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  If your going to open up the BSI you need to follow back these two lines on socket "PH2" ((16vGR) which stands for 16 pin, Grey connection), pin 13 and pin 15. These go to relays R6 & R6. Which ones these are on the board though I do not know. This will have to wait until I take my unit out again!
Have a look at this, there's some pictures of the Bsi.

http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=1619

Let us know how you get on. :thumbsup:

I had seen the post you included. What an amazing piece of diagnosis. As I said, there are some real brains on this forum. I will have a good look for these relays. The components marked YH119 on the board pictures you sent look suspiciously like relays - soldered in types. Should be fun, but I have replaced relays like this before, notably on a garage door opener. The biggest problem is finding suitable replacements. Maplin had those for the garage door. I assume your reference to "these go to relays R6 and R6" means R6 and something else. Please don't grope about under your dash on my account. It's only a minor niggle, not exactly life threatening! But some day I'll get it fixed. If not myself maybe I'll find a dealer who knows what he's doing. Incidentally, I also asked the dealer I used whether my Berlingo could be fitted with cruise control. He said it was impossible but now I find that it just needs the stalk (I have the same stalk on my other car, a Xsara Picasso, on the opposite side to the radio controls) and the BSI reprogrammed to recognise it. Cost of stalk new is £30. Others have been quoted £1,000 - obviously a "put off" tactic. Thank goodness there are people like you around who are prepared to listen and give honest advice. I will do a trace on the wires you suggest and report back. Thanks again. Mike

Just found this web page.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/38814000/Aut...elay-YH119

Looks like the real thing. If its a relay I'm in luck!

Mike
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#6
(22-02-2012, 09:21 PM)mikeB Wrote:  
(21-02-2012, 10:33 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  If your going to open up the BSI you need to follow back these two lines on socket "PH2" ((16vGR) which stands for 16 pin, Grey connection), pin 13 and pin 15. These go to relays R5 & R6. Which ones these are on the board though I do not know. This will have to wait until I take my unit out again!
Have a look at this, there's some pictures of the Bsi.

http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=1619

Let us know how you get on. :thumbsup:

I had seen the post you included. What an amazing piece of diagnosis. As I said, there are some real brains on this forum. I will have a good look for these relays. The components marked YH119 on the board pictures you sent look suspiciously like relays - soldered in types. Should be fun, but I have replaced relays like this before, notably on a garage door opener. The biggest problem is finding suitable replacements. Maplin had those for the garage door. I assume your reference to "these go to relays R6 and R6" means R6 and something else. Please don't grope about under your dash on my account. It's only a minor niggle, not exactly life threatening! But some day I'll get it fixed. If not myself maybe I'll find a dealer who knows what he's doing. Incidentally, I also asked the dealer I used whether my Berlingo could be fitted with cruise control. He said it was impossible but now I find that it just needs the stalk (I have the same stalk on my other car, a Xsara Picasso, on the opposite side to the radio controls) and the BSI reprogrammed to recognise it. Cost of stalk new is £30. Others have been quoted £1,000 - obviously a "put off" tactic. Thank goodness there are people like you around who are prepared to listen and give honest advice. I will do a trace on the wires you suggest and report back. Thanks again. Mike

Just found this web page.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/38814000/Aut...elay-YH119

Looks like the real thing. If its a relay I'm in luck!

Mike
Oops, Sorry - the relays should be "R5 & R6".Confusedillyme::whistleSadhave altered it)
If you find the correct relays on the board, there is a possibility that the contacts on one of these might have "tacked" themselves together. A sharp tap on the top of these might release it. I'd try this before any removal from the board as these will soldered in on both sides and it's very easy to pull out the through holes if they are not released correctly. I would also imagine that there will be a semiconductor somewhere driving these as well.

Good luck with the diagnosis, let me know if you want anymore help.Confusedalut:

2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
Reply
#7
(23-02-2012, 08:46 AM)Rustscrat Wrote:  
(22-02-2012, 09:21 PM)mikeB Wrote:  
(21-02-2012, 10:33 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  If your going to open up the BSI you need to follow back these two lines on socket "PH2" ((16vGR) which stands for 16 pin, Grey connection), pin 13 and pin 15. These go to relays R5 & R6. Which ones these are on the board though I do not know. This will have to wait until I take my unit out again!
Have a look at this, there's some pictures of the Bsi.

http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=1619

Let us know how you get on. :thumbsup:

I had seen the post you included. What an amazing piece of diagnosis. As I said, there are some real brains on this forum. I will have a good look for these relays. The components marked YH119 on the board pictures you sent look suspiciously like relays - soldered in types. Should be fun, but I have replaced relays like this before, notably on a garage door opener. The biggest problem is finding suitable replacements. Maplin had those for the garage door. I assume your reference to "these go to relays R6 and R6" means R6 and something else. Please don't grope about under your dash on my account. It's only a minor niggle, not exactly life threatening! But some day I'll get it fixed. If not myself maybe I'll find a dealer who knows what he's doing. Incidentally, I also asked the dealer I used whether my Berlingo could be fitted with cruise control. He said it was impossible but now I find that it just needs the stalk (I have the same stalk on my other car, a Xsara Picasso, on the opposite side to the radio controls) and the BSI reprogrammed to recognise it. Cost of stalk new is £30. Others have been quoted £1,000 - obviously a "put off" tactic. Thank goodness there are people like you around who are prepared to listen and give honest advice. I will do a trace on the wires you suggest and report back. Thanks again. Mike

Just found this web page.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/38814000/Aut...elay-YH119

Looks like the real thing. If its a relay I'm in luck!

Mike
Oops, Sorry - the relays should be "R5 & R6".Confusedillyme::whistleSadhave altered it)
If you find the correct relays on the board, there is a possibility that the contacts on one of these might have "tacked" themselves together. A sharp tap on the top of these might release it. I'd try this before any removal from the board as these will soldered in on both sides and it's very easy to pull out the through holes if they are not released correctly. I would also imagine that there will be a semiconductor somewhere driving these as well.

Good luck with the diagnosis, let me know if you want anymore help.Confusedalut:

Just had another look at the BSI but this time in a quiet spot and with a very close ear. I can hear a relay (or it could be more than one) click when I press the remote locking button, then after about 3 seconds it clicks again. Then, if I press the unlock button I hear the same sounds, i.e. a click followed by a second click a second or two later. This all suggests it could well be a relay. The data sheet for the component shows they are rated at 30amps. The fuse for the central locking is 20 amps so well within the relays capacity. But nothing lasts for ever so I am going to spend some time examining them, starting with the tap on the top you suggest. It is also possible of course that a wire from the relay to the lock is open circuit but I think the same wires are used for locking as well as unlocking so I suspect it's not the wires. The relays are my prime suspect now. Also, from the markings on the BSI picture you sent me, one of the relays is a normally open version and the other is a changeover. This latter one has got to be a prime suspect. I am quite happy to desolder these. My experience comes from fairly extensive radio work so desoldering doesn't scare me

Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how I get on.

Mike
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#8
This is an update of the central locking saga. The car locks fine but wont unlock. Another issue for me was the fitting of cruise control. I have bought the correct stalk on eBay and taken it to an auto electrician in Bolton who used Lexia 3 to program the cruise control. It works perfectly and cost me a total of £110. The dealer quoted me £1000, but said it couldn't be done anyway!
The Bolton Auto electrician agreed with my diagnosis that a relay was probably to blame. He was clearly familiar with Citroen BSI and sold me an old unit for a nominal sum so I could remove the relays if necessary.
So I tried to remove the BSI from the car and here I had a problem. How do I remove it, especially the multiple multi plugs. Do I squeeze, press, lift etc. I am afraid I might break the plastic. Any help most welcome. There are various styles including EH, EP, PH, PP, AP and more. They all seem different.
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#9
Hi, if it's the same as mine - it's a pain in the :censored: to get out but once you've done it once it gets easier.
Start at the front, the two connectors with the twin heavy cables.
The one on the left (I think) has some colored plastic clips which you either have to pull up or press down to release the connection.
The other one you press the clip in on the side.
Now there are 3 oblong connectors. Two are parallel and one at an angle.
You will again see some colored plastic at the end of these. push the colored plastic towards the front of the vehicle with a small screwdriver. As you are doing this you will start to see the connector lifting.
At the back there are 3 multi pinned connectors, these have a lever which you pull back which lifts the out the plug. You might have to press down a locking tab to release the lever.
Don't forget to do a Bsi shut down before you start disconnecting. :thumbsup:
Let us know how you get on!! Confusedalut:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Rustscrat for this post
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#10
Thanks for the info and advice. I have a theory about the BSI. You will know it's in 2 parts. The lower bit seems to be the real computer where all the settings are stored. The outputs are via the expanding pins which connect to the upper part which seems to be a collection of servos (relays etc). I suspect the upper but can be replaced without problem and, since I have acquired a spare BSI I might try a substitution. But first I will check the quality of the connections between the two boards. I have already identified the specific pins which drive the central locking relays so this will be a first stop. I will let you know how I get on. Mike
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