Mk3 Berlingo Towball load (Noseweight)
05-04-2012, 08:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 27-05-2012, 06:33 PM by peterws.)
Hello everybody by the way. I`m new to the site.
Have a Mk3 2010 XTR 110 with a towball loading weight of I believe 55kg. Whilst the vehicle tows my caravan like a good`un, I struggle to achieve this figure. My van will weigh around 1000kg fully and as such, the load is maximum. And then some . .
Anybody with imaginative bright ideas please . . . .! Do not want to change car or van!
i think the idea is to load the caravan so the weight is over the wheels & have a max 55 kg on tow ball .
The vehicle is fine to take the weight as you know-the only way the authorities can easily roadside check for overloading is by weighing the whole train or the axles each in turn.Unless you have really p***** the off and they want to get scientific.
Look up your specs and spend a quiet weekday morning at a friendly factory or public wieghbridge.
06-04-2012, 08:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2012, 09:03 PM by Kickstart.)
Hi, I am new to the forum.
This issue interests me as I would dearly love to get a Caravan to tow with my 2009 Berlingo XTR110
This 55 kg nose weight limit is a real problem. It is NOT as simple as loading the caravan up behind the caravan axle to lower the noseweight unless you want to be spread all over the motorway. A pendulum effect is created and a snake will probably result. I am sorry to say that I have heard complete nonsence on this matter from people who should darned well know better (caravan dealers) I should add now that I have towed Caravans most of my Adult life all over Europe and I am still (mainly) in one piece.
My early XTR has the 55kg limit and that has been confirmed by Citroen customer services. Later models were it seems upgraded to 70kg. Customer services could not tell me what changes to the Berlingo they made to up the noseweight limit. If anyone knows or can find out I would be most grateful. It might have been simply re-plated to 70kg but I just cannot find out.
The Caravan club really rates the Berlingo as a towcar but (correctly)warns of the noseweight issue. I hope someone can help as it is b. cold in a tent at my age!
By the way, the overall weight of the caravan has no bearing on the noseweight. It depends on where the axle has been put. That is the fulcrum point and to get long beds in the front caravan manufacturers put the axle a long way back and end up with massive noseweights some times up to 90 kg. That's why they are most reluctant to quote the ex works noseweight figure but its a figure you must find out. An easy way is to stick an inverted hammer into the hitch and rest it on some bathrooms scales. Alternatively buy a noseweight guage.
Thanks for that Kickstart. My problem is your problem! I know from experience towing and nearly losing a boat, that noseweight is important. The heavier the `van, the heavier the noseweight for stability. Now, my van`s not light for a little`un. It`s a wintervan with insulation all round, up and under. I`d estimate the noseweight as 74kg ideally.
But it does tow well on (cough cough) 55kg. with no snaking discernable. And no stabiliser either.
So maybe someone can find out if the noseweight of the XTR has been merely reassessed upwards. The company may understanably be reluctant to divulge if this is the case.
Bloody hope so!! DO NOT want to change this car. We both love it!
07-04-2012, 04:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2012, 06:10 PM by Kickstart.)
Yes, I do understand, I really like my Berlingo too and I really want another Caravan. Out of interest, do a check on your noseweight and see what it actually is?
I am going to be boring and (possibly in some eyes) paranoid now.
there is a prang (it does not matter who's fault it is) and someone got hurt. The cops would send their accident investigation team to the "Crime Scene". They discover (yes they really would) the noseweight is way out on the car and caravan. Meanwhile the injured party is looking at your nice Berlingo and your nice Caravan and begins to think mealticket.
Eventually, the cops inform your insurance company that you exceeded your vehicle towing parameters. Your insurance company goes "YES, thank you big feller in the sky" and they point to a clause in the contract and say that they are not going to cover you. Meanwhile, the cops go into a huddle to make up their collective minds if they are going to "doo you" or not. But, it really does not matter in the big scheme of things because the injured party has just gone "YES, thank you big feller in the sky" you now ARE their mealticket. Why? because the injured party has by now engaged one of the "accident management companies". Now you learn what being in the pooch really means as they come after your assets (because remember you are not insured) bye bye nice Berlingo and Caravan and maybe even bye bye house (if you have one).
Is this fantasy? You can decide. I won't chance it, no way.
The noseweight figure is quoted to prevent rear axle overload & allows for a certain amount of weight in the boot. There is no circumstances where the noseweight of your caravan would be weighed by anybody except yourself. In the event of an accident how could they prove any noseweight measured after an accident with serious damage caused to caravan was same as before accident?
If you were pulled for a check you would be weighed on a portable axle weigher. If the axle weights were in excess of vehicle limit you would get done, as you would if your train weight, total weight of car & caravan was in excess of of vehicle limit. I tow a 750kg caravan & noseweight is approx 55kg when I last weighed it but really the figure is not critical. I can only assume that Citroen have increased their stated noseweight limit for marketing purposes. All that matters is that axle weight limit is not exceeded & that will not happen if boot load load is kept to a reasonable limit when towing & noseweight of caravan is within reason.
This is getting more interesting by the minute; a "reasonable" weight in the boot? The car should take 5 adults and luggage and - STILL have a 55kg towball weight? I think so. Since there`s only two of us and the dog (13kg if she`s just pooped) then . . . well, should be all right for a tad more.
But I take Kickstart`s point seriously. There are dark forces out there . . . . Maybe I`ll change the car next year. Until then, 55kg it is. And the car`ll get loaded, not the caravan.
And I`ll go no faster than 60mph! That OK officer?
09-04-2012, 11:26 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2012, 11:40 AM by Kickstart.)
Well, I may have been stretching the scenario a bit (as I admitted in my post) but I am 100% sure of this next bit. If there was a serious injury to a person, the road would be closed and designated a crime scene. The Police would not let anyone near the Car and Caravan and the investigators would get stuck in. Measurements and Photographs would be taken and the unit would be recovered to a Police designated area. The investigators would not take long to discover the noseweight missmatch. They are very good at their job. I take Opensause's point the Caravan might have been "modified" in the crash and might not even have a front end on but if these guys can work out your speed from a scrape on the road they will not have any problem working out a noseweight missmatch.
We can all make up our own minds to take the risk or not.
Does anyone know the answer to the original questions? How to get the earlier Berlingo official noseweight limit up to the 70kg of the later model? I would be perfectly happy towing a Caravan with 70kg to play with.
All the best
Bye the way, I have just had an e-mail from the Sales Manager at Lunar Caravans, their new "Venus" range have a low nose weight on their 380/2, its 55kg (ish) Thats the lowest I have been able to find recently apart from a "Freedom" mini Caravan at 50kg.
19-04-2012, 12:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-04-2012, 12:14 PM by Opensauce.)
Definitive answer after email to Citroen UK who phoned me...Newer Mk3 is built on different new type floor pan which has been tested to 70kg noseweight, older version only tested to 55kg. You cannot change manufacturer spec. Noseweight figure quoted is not a legal requirement unlike axle weights & train weight which are. Max noseweight is just a recommendation based on what you might load in boot as well etc. All that matters is that you do not exceed axle weights & gross train weight with caravan hitched.
It is also difficult to accurately measure caravan noseweight anyway. The 'true' weight would be established with caravan level on level hard ground. Weighing on on uneven surface, up/downhill etc will produce different weight, weight would also vary constantly as you drive. I would say that provided you don't go too much over the the quoted weight you will be ok. Certainly no need to worry about it being a few kgs over as they do on caravan forums.
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