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Another 'Dash Lights On with No Key in' Problem (but no BSI)
#1
Hi there,

Does anyone have a fuse box diagram and/or wiring diagram for a 1999 Berlingo diesel?

Went out to the van a few days ago and found all the dash lights on and the 'bee-boo-bee-boo' warning buzzer going without the key in, including the immobiliser warning light. Put the key in and the immobiliser light stayed on - couldn't start the engine.

Eventually got the engine started by taking the battery lead off/putting it back on a few times to get rid of the immobiliser light. After starting, all the dash lights went out (as normal) and the fuel and temp guages worked fine. Turned the ignition off (took key out) and the engine kept running. Pressing the footbrake (with the key out) stopped the engine. Selecting reverse also stops the engine (with key out) but sidelights, wipers, indicators etc on/off won't stop the engine.

Normally this might be a BSI problem, but there's no BSI in these vehicles - Haynes and the local Citroen dealer say BSI's were only fitted after 2001.

So looks like a problem with current backflow through another circuit feeding the ignition. Have checked all the main earthing points - both rear light earths, both 'A" pillar earths, O/side front inner wing and the 3 earths behind the fuse box in the engine compartment - and all are bright and clear (cleaned them up anyway). Have also unplugged both rear lights. Dash lights still stay on. Citroen dealer said to check for blown rear bulbs, but no bulbs are blown.

So took each fuse out one at a time until the dash lights went out - removing fuse 25 solved the problem.

Haynes (1996 - 2005) Berlingo wiring diagrams don't seem to cover the '99 Berlingo - it shows BSI fuses and wiring - the nearest is the Peugeot wiring diagrams which says fuse 25 is for interior lights, clock and air conditioning engine control unit (the van doesn't have aircon). The owner's handbook that came with the van shows (quote):

'According to model or country'
Fuse 25 - Control unit for coolant temperature / post cooling fan unit / injection ECU memory / diesel transponder - front/rear interior lighting - radio memory - clock

With fuse 25 out, the interior lights are dead, and the clock only works when the ignition is turned on with the key - which is odd, since if it's fed by that fuse (only) the clock shouldn't work at all.

With the interior lights disconnected (also the temp sensor on the rad unplugged) but speedo/clock unit connected, there's 16 ohms between the fuse feed (non-battery side) and earth. With the clock/speedo unit also disconnected (it's the 5 connector type, btw) the resistance to earth on the circuit increases to 1.6K ohms - but the 'bee-boo' warning buzzer still sounds when the fuse is put back in (with key out) so I'm assuming the clock/speedo unit isn't the (only?) problem.

Running out of ideas here, there has to be something else on that circuit (or a wiring fault somewhere) - has anyone got a fuse diagram (ie. what's on fuse 25) and/or wiring diagram for the 1999 Berlingo diesel so I can do some tracing?

I've had this van since it was 3 years old and never had any problems with the electrics before.

The info on the drivers 'A' pillar label is:

68239
10731
EWPA

I can email the VIN if that helps.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.
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#2
Hi, If you PM me your Vin No. I'll see what I can dig out. :thumbsup:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
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#3
PM sent - thanks!
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#4
You must have a bad earth some where.
Have you checked the main battery to chassis earth and the main battery to gearbox earth?
A good test is - switch ignition on and measure the dc volts between the battery Neg. post and the chassis. Then the same to the engine. There should be less than a volt. Do the test again with dipped lights on and see what you get.
What lights are on on the dash?
If you could pin point one specific fault then I can dig out that specific drawing.
The interior lights are fed off fuse 25 but so are other things as well.
:thumbsup:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
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#5
(09-10-2012, 10:05 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  You must have a bad earth some where.
Have you checked the main battery to chassis earth and the main battery to gearbox earth?

Sorry for the delay in replying - I didn't get an email notification that you'd posted.

Yes - I should have said in my initial post that I checked and cleaned the battery earth to chassis lead when I checked the other earths.

Quote:A good test is - switch ignition on and measure the dc volts between the battery Neg. post and the chassis. Then the same to the engine. There should be less than a volt. Do the test again with dipped lights on and see what you get.

With nothing turned on, negative terminal to chassis earth = 0.1mV, ditto to gearbox earth
With dipped headlights on, 35mV to chassis, 15mV to gearbox

Quote:What lights are on on the dash?

With fuse in and key out, and after it's been on for a while, there's battery, handbrake and the red dot at the top of the water temp gauge. For the first 2 seconds the immobiliser warning will come on then go off (but see below), and also the airbag, water temp (? looks like an upside-down 'L') and glow plug light for 15 seconds or less. So the lights are (most times) what you'd expect if you turned the ignition on with the key.

Sometimes though, the immobiliser light will stay on and trigger the 'bee-boop-bee-boop' buzzer, and the engine won't start if you try it. The immobiliser light (when on) won't extinguish if you put the key in.

With key out and fuse in, the dash lights sometimes will go out if you press and hold the brake pedal on. Release the pedal and the lights return. They will also (sometimes) go out if you select reverse, but in this case the lights return on their own after 10 seconds or so, even with reverse still selected. After you've pressed the pedal a few times (or selected reverse), then pressing the pedal/selecting reverse stops having that effect.

Quote:If you could pin point one specific fault then I can dig out that specific drawing.

Well, the specific fault is that the ignition turns on with fuse 25 in :-)

Just did a bit more testing tonight, and it's quite confusing:

With key out/fuse 25 out, interior lights unplugged, resistance to earth from the non-battery side of fuse 25:

a) 7 ohms, dropping to 1.2 ohms when you press the brake pedal or select reverse gear (V = 0.1mV / 0.1mV)

b) 7 ohms, dropping to 3 ohms when you turn the sidelights on, then increasing to 14 ohms when dipped headlights are turned on.

c) With both rear light clusters also unplugged, the resistance to earth stays at 7 ohms when you press the brake pedal/select reverse.


Same as above, but with key in and ignition turned on:

16 M ohms / 16 M ohms (V = 0.1mV / 0.1mV) - ie. with key in and ignition on there's good resistance to earth, and no change in R when pressing brake pedal/selecting reverse

Quote:The interior lights are fed off fuse 25 but so are other things as well.

If you could let me know what your info shows is on fuse 25 that would be a really good starting point for me in isolating other circuits until I find the fault.

Thanks :-)
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#6
Have a look at these earth points. Make sure MC32 and all other earths around this area are OK. Your clock lamps and immobilizer use these earths.
Check your ignition switch and make sure that when the key is in the off position there is no connection between any of the 6 wires. If there is let me know which ones these are. :thumbsup:

[Image: 34509yd.png]
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
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#7
Thanks - I'll check that tomorrow (Saturday).

Although the pic does seem to be showing more earths than I saw last time I took the footwell (A frame) trim panels off - but I'll take them off again and check. Smile

What else is on fuse 25?

Thanks Smile
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#8
(12-10-2012, 11:38 PM)Pix Wrote:  Thanks - I'll check that tomorrow (Saturday).

Although the pic does seem to be showing more earths than I saw last time I took the footwell (A frame) trim panels off - but I'll take them off again and check. Smile

What else is on fuse 25?

Thanks Smile

Because the drawings are all in sections I'll have to go through each one, but I'll see what I can do.Confusedtudy:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
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#9
Ok. - Checked MC32/33 and MC30/31 again (did them previously) and they're fine. There's only 1 thick green wire (with yellow blotches) going to each of them.

Can't get to the ignition switch wires - the connector block is inside the metal barrel that holds the ignition switch. There's no play in the wiring without disconnecting at the fuse box end, and I can't see how to get to that without taking the whole dash out Sad

Seems the best way will be to find what else is on that fuse and isolate each item in turn.

Thanks for your help Smile
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#10
Did you manage to get anywhere finding the right drawing?

Thanks Smile
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