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Which model should I look for?
#1
[fon‌t=Arial]Which Multispace Model?
Hello – this is my first posting on the Forum, and I’m wondering whether you can help me spec’ an older Berlingo Multispace? Local dealers don’t seem to be well versed on the older models so I’ve gleaned what I can from this Forum.
My 27 year old Sierra will need replacing soon and I’m wondering whether a Multispace would suit the bill – please correct me where needed. I’m proposing to keep it a long time so would like to get it right. It must be a 1.9 diesel.
It will be second hand and from what I can make out the Mk2 came out in 2002 and continued to offer the 1.9 diesel for some years. So a MK1 or a Mk2?

My Requirements
I need the vehicle for driving regular long journeys abroad fully loaded as well as for day to day use. Occasionally to be used to ferry building materials around so the option of fitting heavy duty coil springs and a tow bar are a ‘must’.
Must be a 1.9 diesel with a Bosch pump (was any other make of pump offered?) – so that I can run on veg’ oil. When was the 1.9 engine discontinued on the MK2? Was there ever a turbo’ option?
I’m 6ft 4’’ and of large build. I’ve sat in several and there’s plenty of headroom – what are the seats like for long journeys (and how do they vary between models?). Leg room? It’s important that I can drive in reasonable comfort and have heard that the pedals on RHD models don’t suit size 12 feet? [/font][/size]. Are there any modifications available?
I do all my own servicing so simplicity and low running costs are the name of the game – no a.c. wanted, and I would prefer no central locking or electric windows.
Preferences include steel wheels not alloy, and solid paint rather than metallic (but not white or black). I’d love a simple sunroof but understand the full length MK1 sunroof and cables are prohibitively expensive to replace/repair?
I’d appreciate any advice that you can give me on the appropriate model and guidance on specifications and options. Thanks in anticipation.
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#2
I would suggest the "Forte" spec level, fairly basic but even they had electric windows & central locking,steel wheels, no sunroof. You'll find a lot of Berlingo's have towbars fitted already, mine did.
If you only occasionally ferry building materials then I'd be inclined to stick with the stock suspension, heavy duty suspension would only compromise the ride at all other times surely? The Berlingo has coil springs up front, but I believe the rear is a torsion bar and damper arrangement.

I'd consider the 2.0Hdi engine if you plan on long journeys with the vehicle laden. The turbo diesel would make for more efficient cruising and generally returns better mpg than the 1.9d despite having the extra power.
Although I'm guessing the 2.0Hdi would not like being run on veg oil?

I find the seats and legroom fine for long journeys, I regularly do Inverness-Leeds-Inverness in my Mk2 without too much trouble.
But I think you're always going to find a few problems with pedals when you have size 12feet, my size 10's suit the Berlingo fine though.

Just my 2p.
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#3
Welcome to the forum!

Here are my attempts to answer your queries.

(01-12-2012, 04:17 PM)oldporridge Wrote:  [fon‌t=Arial]
When was the 1.9 engine discontinued on the MK2?


Late 2005.

Quote:Was there ever a turbo’ option?

No

Quote:I’m 6ft 4’’ and of large build. I’ve sat in several and there’s plenty of headroom – what are the seats like for long journeys (and how do they vary between models?).

That's a matter of personal taste. I'm 6' 1" and I would say they are OK. You'll find better seats on more expensive cars. I've had a Mk1 Forte and a Mk2 Desire and have found no significant difference between them in seat comfort.

Quote: Leg room? It’s important that I can drive in reasonable comfort and have heard that the pedals on RHD models don’t suit size 12 feet? [/font][/size].

Leg room is reasonable - though again, there are better cars. If there is a difference between Mk1 & Mk2, I didn't notice it.

Strangely, I would have to say that I preferred the pedals on the Mk1. I have size 12 feet, and on the Mk2, if I have to break suddenly, my foot sometimes hits the accelerator at the same time as the brake, which was not really a problem on my Mk1.

Quote: Are there any modifications available?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Quote:I do all my own servicing so simplicity and low running costs are the name of the game – no a.c. wanted, and I would prefer no central locking or electric windows.

Very few Berlingos had air con. My Mk1 Forte did not have central locking or electric windows, but they were available as options. By 2004, electric windows and central locking were standard on all Berlingos. I can't tell you when that came in.

Quote:Preferences include steel wheels not alloy, and solid paint rather than metallic (but not white or black). I’d love a simple sunroof but understand the full length MK1 sunroof and cables are prohibitively expensive to replace/repair?

Steel wheels were standard, but on Mk2 Berlingos at least, alloys were an option.

The only solid paint colours were red and white.

There are no simple sunroofs! As you say the full length sunroof, which was also available as an option on Mk2 Forte models, is expensive to replace/repair.

The modutop with glass panels in the roof was available as an option on late Mk1 models (2001 & 2002 I think). As soon as Desire spec came in on Mk2 models, the modutop became standard on Desire vehicles, but was not available on Forte models.

I might add that in my opinion, the build quality of my Mk2 Berlingo is much better than that of my Mk1 Berlingo.
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Northman for this post
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#4
I cant remember the last time I saw a Sierra
The first time must have been around '85 and we fell about laughing at this jelly mould shaped thing-hard to find a car that isnt all rounded off now though.

You've mapped out your requirements and pretty much answered the question yourself -just a case of finding one now.
You may have to back down on a few points or you will be looking a lot longer.

The 1.9's performance will be a culture change after the Sierra -patience is a virtue...

The 1.9 had a Lucas pump when it was in the C15-watch it hasnt been swapped over from one -they will not handle more than a trace dosage of veg oil.
Be cautious with the veg idea -even Bosch systms were not intended to use it -not long term anyway.
We have seen pictures of devastation posted here caused by non DERV fuel.

Tow bars are ten a penny and easy to fit- its all been discussed several times in these pages if you need specifics.
Coil springs ? if its only ocasionally then the standard ones wil be fine -the axle is torsion bar too .
Put the heavy stuff in a trailer.
[+] 2 users say Thank You to evdama for this post
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#5
Two things from my experience, the Hdi is a revelation after the 1.9, I would recommend it especially if you are doing a lot fully laden. A case of pack sandwiches if you plan to get to 60mph! With regard to the seats and your height, you should know I found that if you have the back seats fully folded into the seatwell the front seat will not go back all the way. Could be an issue if you want to pack the back to the max. Maybe that is why the single seat is on the left side, for a left hand drive model it would only compromise one seat rather than two. I am pretty sure of this, someone will tell you if I am not! Smile
I agree about the veg oil, too many horror stories here to make me want to try, although I have a friend who has driven an 1990 Merc on it for years without problems.
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#6
(01-12-2012, 04:34 PM)hachiroku Wrote:  I would suggest the "Forte" spec level, fairly basic but even they had electric windows & central locking,steel wheels, no sunroof. You'll find a lot of Berlingo's have towbars fitted already, mine did.
If you only occasionally ferry building materials then I'd be inclined to stick with the stock suspension, heavy duty suspension would only compromise the ride at all other times surely? The Berlingo has coil springs up front, but I believe the rear is a torsion bar and damper arrangement.

I'd consider the 2.0Hdi engine if you plan on long journeys with the vehicle laden. The turbo diesel would make for more efficient cruising and generally returns better mpg than the 1.9d despite having the extra power.
Although I'm guessing the 2.0Hdi would not like being run on veg oil?

I find the seats and legroom fine for long journeys, I regularly do Inverness-Leeds-Inverness in my Mk2 without too much trouble.
But I think you're always going to find a few problems with pedals when you have size 12feet, my size 10's suit the Berlingo fine though.

Just my 2p.
Thanks for the prompt response Hachiroku.

Seems like it is not possible to upgrade the rear suspension then. Is this the same set up in the van I wonder?

I also wonder whether the van has manually operated windows that could be substituted for when the solenoids stop operating?

The 1.9d engine appears to be a lot simpler to work on than the 2.0Hdi, with presumably less electrickery to deal with (but both have the dreaded rubber timing belt - shame).

I appreciate that it's a slower and cruder engine, and I wonder why the turbo 1.9d was never fitted? Perhaps this is the way to go when the timing belt eventually goes..........has anyone done this?
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#7
You can fit MAD or Grayston spring assisters (they are coil springs which fit where the bump stops go.

We have a 2007 reg camper (delivered from Citroen to Romahome for conversion in summer 2006 and it is a 1.9 DW8 engine.

The vans were either 600kg or 800kg - different torsion bars, multispace use the 600kg suspension.

Before 2000 vans had the old XUD engine with very few electronics and this engine could easily be replaced with a turbo version from any of the cars that used the PSA 1.9 turbo (there are a very few 3 door multispaces from this era.

The DW8 has some electronics, the newer, the more electronics.

We have just got rid of a year 2000 multispace after 12 years and have bought a later version with the 1.6 turbo
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Romahomepete for this post
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#8
When I had my C15 there was a company doing turbo conversions on them.
I did consider it but backed down at the thought of doing their unpaid development work for them and also at the £ signs lighting up in my insurers eyes when they heard the word "TURBO"
Do you need a car -would a van suit your needs?
[+] 1 user says Thank You to evdama for this post
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#9
(01-12-2012, 06:20 PM)Northman Wrote:  Welcome to the forum!

Here are my attempts to answer your queries.

(01-12-2012, 04:17 PM)oldporridge Wrote:  [fon‌t=Arial]
When was the 1.9 engine discontinued on the MK2?


Late 2005.

Quote:Was there ever a turbo’ option?

No

Quote:I’m 6ft 4’’ and of large build. I’ve sat in several and there’s plenty of headroom – what are the seats like for long journeys (and how do they vary between models?).

That's a matter of personal taste. I'm 6' 1" and I would say they are OK. You'll find better seats on more expensive cars. I've had a Mk1 Forte and a Mk2 Desire and have found no significant difference between them in seat comfort.

Quote: Leg room? It’s important that I can drive in reasonable comfort and have heard that the pedals on RHD models don’t suit size 12 feet? [/font][/size].

Leg room is reasonable - though again, there are better cars. If there is a difference between Mk1 & Mk2, I didn't notice it.

Strangely, I would have to say that I preferred the pedals on the Mk1. I have size 12 feet, and on the Mk2, if I have to break suddenly, my foot sometimes hits the accelerator at the same time as the brake, which was not really a problem on my Mk1.

Quote: Are there any modifications available?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Quote:I do all my own servicing so simplicity and low running costs are the name of the game – no a.c. wanted, and I would prefer no central locking or electric windows.

Very few Berlingos had air con. My Mk1 Forte did not have central locking or electric windows, but they were available as options. By 2004, electric windows and central locking were standard on all Berlingos. I can't tell you when that came in.

Quote:Preferences include steel wheels not alloy, and solid paint rather than metallic (but not white or black). I’d love a simple sunroof but understand the full length MK1 sunroof and cables are prohibitively expensive to replace/repair?

Steel wheels were standard, but on Mk2 Berlingos at least, alloys were an option.

The only solid paint colours were red and white.

There are no simple sunroofs! As you say the full length sunroof, which was also available as an option on Mk2 Forte models, is expensive to replace/repair.

The modutop with glass panels in the roof was available as an option on late Mk1 models (2001 & 2002 I think). As soon as Desire spec came in on Mk2 models, the modutop became standard on Desire vehicles, but was not available on Forte models.

I might add that in my opinion, the build quality of my Mk2 Berlingo is much better than that of my Mk1 Berlingo.

A very useful set of information - thankyou Northman.

Interesting about what you say regarding the pedals. This implies that the pedal boxes are not the same on the MK1 and Mk2, and/or the footwells are different. Presumably the pedals could be modified by bending and welding if there is sufficient room in the footwell?

The idea of a Modutop appeals, (particularly if it might be possible to replace one of the glass panels with and opening sunroof), though I've read about leaking roofs (which are expensive to fix) and wonder how common this really is?

Does anyone know when the 1.9d pump changed over from mechanical to to electronic controls?

thanks for all this ongoing help - I've been looking on this Forum and elsewhere for details of all the different model specifications but cannot find much clarity - am I missing the obvious?

(01-12-2012, 07:21 PM)evdama Wrote:  I cant remember the last time I saw a Sierra
The first time must have been around '85 and we fell about laughing at this jelly mould shaped thing-hard to find a car that isnt all rounded off now though.

You've mapped out your requirements and pretty much answered the question yourself -just a case of finding one now.
You may have to back down on a few points or you will be looking a lot longer.

The 1.9's performance will be a culture change after the Sierra -patience is a virtue...

The 1.9 had a Lucas pump when it was in the C15-watch it hasnt been swapped over from one -they will not handle more than a trace dosage of veg oil.
Be cautious with the veg idea -even Bosch systms were not intended to use it -not long term anyway.
We have seen pictures of devastation posted here caused by non DERV fuel.

Tow bars are ten a penny and easy to fit- its all been discussed several times in these pages if you need specifics.
Coil springs ? if its only ocasionally then the standard ones wil be fine -the axle is torsion bar too .
Put the heavy stuff in a trailer.

Cheers Evdama...........the Sierra has the 2.3d Peugeot pushrod engine ( a true miser's car) so the 1.9d would probably seen brisk! I did three return trips to Bordeaux in it this year but not on veg oil as it unfortunately has a Lucas pump. My brother has three 1.9d turbo engines (one in a Volvo Amazon) and has run them on veg oil for the last 8/9 years with no problems.

I wonder if anyone has tried fitting a 1.9d turbo engine in a Berlingo?
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#10
Longest post/quote ever! :eek:

:lol:
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