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Wrong shock?
#1
Hi all.

Follow on from my broken spring thread.

Spent all of Fri and Sat morning fitting new spring and shock to my Bingo 2.0 HDi (Jan 2003). Most of that time was due to my inexperience of spring compressors ( I have some, used them 20 years ago, too short for Bingo springs so had to hire some. Another thread is due on this subject if not there already. These things can be dangerous. From someone inexperienced anyway...).

Motor factors only asked for registration number. Thats all they needed to order shocks and springs.Noticed some differences between original and new (pattern) shocks. But (eventually) managed to fit new spring and nearside damper.

However tried to fit coil cup (fitted by citroen as part of recall due to springs failing and hitting tyre!) but there is not enough room.

Looked up part number for supplied dampers, KYB 633839 and 633838. Look like they fit Bingo up to 12/02, so presumably MKI? Or vans ? Anyway looks like I should have been given part number 333730/333729 (03 to 07).

Situation is I have fitted one spring and (suspect) damper to nearside. Offside stiil has original damper and spring (and cup).

Can anyone confirm that supplied dampers are incorrect, and if so, what recourse do I have with factors? They could claim I told them wrong year etc. Thanks in advance.
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#2
These are what's listed for yours, good luck. Confusedalut:

.pdf   2003 front shocks.pdf (Size: 47.08 KB / Downloads: 22)

.pdf   2003 front spring.pdf (Size: 82.65 KB / Downloads: 16)
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Rustscrat for this post
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#3
(07-04-2013, 08:47 AM)Rustscrat Wrote:  These are what's listed for yours, good luck. Confusedalut:
Ta for that Rustscrat.

As you can see in attached photo. Old and new are similar. I should have compared them more closely. Only became obvious when I tried to fit spring cup. Less room between anti roll bar drop link bracket and spring carrier.
   

I should be able to get a refund on the dampers, as the factors made the mistake. But can I expect them to pay towards the cost of removing wrong part and fitting correct. I don't have the time or inclination to do it myself now. So will probably get a fast fit place to sort both sides.

One thing, Rustscrat. Do you know if the MkI and MkII use the same springs?

BTW. Haynes manual says have to use spring compressors on spring before removing strut from car. I levered lower arm down using long bar. Pinch bolt was seized, so strut was tight in top of hub. So a bit of persuasion was required. But definitely don't need to fit compressors when strut fitted to car.

Also found compressors had to fit over 4 links of the spring. My compressors would only fit across 3. But 3 aren't enough. Also tricky to fit across 4 and be 180 degrees apart. In the end I had to fit compressor under spring carrier of strut.

Anyone got a tip for roll bar drop link ball joint spinning when trying to tighten nut? Allen key spins in hole.
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#4
The springs have different numbers so I wouldn't risk it.
What's wrong with your original dampers, the one in the pic. looks ok?
Re link rod, has it got flats on it near the rubber?
Re spring compressors, I managed to get some extra long ones for the same problem.
:thumbsup:
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Rustscrat for this post
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#5
(08-04-2013, 01:38 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  The springs have different numbers so I wouldn't risk it.
What's wrong with your original dampers, the one in the pic. looks ok?
Re link rod, has it got flats on it near the rubber?
Re spring compressors, I managed to get some extra long ones for the same problem.
:thumbsup:
When I checked KYB catalogue, it listed same spring for pre 2003 and later.
Drop link. Don't remember seeing any flats.
Original damper spring carrier (?) became loose after me hitting it when taking it out of hub. Looked OK, just could rotate around damper body. Noticed new damper had welds to hold in one orientation. See below about Kwik Fat saga ....

Well it just got worse. Car went into Kwik Fat today to fit two new shocks to front of car. Replacing original on offside and "incorrect" one on n/s I fitted. Left instructions that car was 2003 Mk2 not 2002 MK2 car, as reg is 52 plate.

Got call later that they had tried shocks from 3 suppliers and none were like original. Shock from Citroen would be 150 quid each (plus fitting I guess). Now by this time they had stripped down both sides. You would have thought they would have checked part before starting work. I left suspension cup with them to fit on new damper. So they should have been able to see if it fitted parts they ordered.

Anyway sometime later they say can't get part except from dealer. So I had thought that they should fit original shock that I took off. Gave them that, then much later again they say it has been damaged taking it off (I did have to hit it with a hammer to get it off) and can't be used. Original shock spring carrier is not welded to damper. So surprised it rotating should be a problem.

In the end they say car may have to stay with them and they would fit dealer shock. So I said we needed car and they should fit "wrong" shock back on again. This put state of car pretty much back to how it was when I brought it into them.

He drew up bill for 79 quid. I was expecting him to try and charge more, due to the 6+ hours they spent on it. However as it was broken down as 30 for tracking and 49 labour I didn't argue.

But as they chose to strip it down before getting parts, I feel I shouldn't have to pay anything. In fact we should be compensated for waiting so long and the hassle.

To cap it off, the invoice was in Kwik Fit leaflet, stating if you have new shocks fitted, and you are not happy with them, bring car back within 14 days and they will refit them and refund your money. So perhaps I can get them on that. Letter to Head Office me thinks.
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#6
(09-04-2013, 07:46 PM)Modmytop Wrote:  
(08-04-2013, 01:38 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  The springs have different numbers so I wouldn't risk it.
What's wrong with your original dampers, the one in the pic. looks ok?
Re link rod, has it got flats on it near the rubber?
Re spring compressors, I managed to get some extra long ones for the same problem.
:thumbsup:
When I checked KYB catalogue, it listed same spring for pre 2003 and later.
Drop link. Don't remember seeing any flats.
Original damper spring carrier (?) became loose after me hitting it when taking it out of hub. Looked OK, just could rotate around damper body. Noticed new damper had welds to hold in one orientation. See below about Kwik Fat saga ....

Well it just got worse. Car went into Kwik Fat today to fit two new shocks to front of car. Replacing original on offside and "incorrect" one on n/s I fitted. Left instructions that car was 2003 Mk2 not 2002 MK2 car, as reg is 52 plate.

Got call later that they had tried shocks from 3 suppliers and none were like original. Shock from Citroen would be 150 quid each (plus fitting I guess). Now by this time they had stripped down both sides. You would have thought they would have checked part before starting work. I left suspension cup with them to fit on new damper. So they should have been able to see if it fitted parts they ordered.

Anyway sometime later they say can't get part except from dealer. So I had thought that they should fit original shock that I took off. Gave them that, then much later again they say it has been damaged taking it off (I did have to hit it with a hammer to get it off) and can't be used. Original shock spring carrier is not welded to damper. So surprised it rotating should be a problem.

In the end they say car may have to stay with them and they would fit dealer shock. So I said we needed car and they should fit "wrong" shock back on again. This put state of car pretty much back to how it was when I brought it into them.

He drew up bill for 79 quid. I was expecting him to try and charge more, due to the 6+ hours they spent on it. However as it was broken down as 30 for tracking and 49 labour I didn't argue.

But as they chose to strip it down before getting parts, I feel I shouldn't have to pay anything. In fact we should be compensated for waiting so long and the hassle.

To cap it off, the invoice was in Kwik Fit leaflet, stating if you have new shocks fitted, and you are not happy with them, bring car back within 14 days and they will refit them and refund your money. So perhaps I can get them on that. Letter to Head Office me thinks.

The drop link (citroen original) Is a torx not an allen fitting (cant remember size sorry)
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#7
(10-04-2013, 01:42 PM)Husqyman Wrote:  
(09-04-2013, 07:46 PM)Modmytop Wrote:  
(08-04-2013, 01:38 PM)Rustscrat Wrote:  The springs have different numbers so I wouldn't risk it.
What's wrong with your original dampers, the one in the pic. looks ok?
Re link rod, has it got flats on it near the rubber?
Re spring compressors, I managed to get some extra long ones for the same problem.
:thumbsup:
When I checked KYB catalogue, it listed same spring for pre 2003 and later.
Drop link. Don't remember seeing any flats.
Original damper spring carrier (?) became loose after me hitting it when taking it out of hub. Looked OK, just could rotate around damper body. Noticed new damper had welds to hold in one orientation. See below about Kwik Fat saga ....

Well it just got worse. Car went into Kwik Fat today to fit two new shocks to front of car. Replacing original on offside and "incorrect" one on n/s I fitted. Left instructions that car was 2003 Mk2 not 2002 MK2 car, as reg is 52 plate.

Got call later that they had tried shocks from 3 suppliers and none were like original. Shock from Citroen would be 150 quid each (plus fitting I guess). Now by this time they had stripped down both sides. You would have thought they would have checked part before starting work. I left suspension cup with them to fit on new damper. So they should have been able to see if it fitted parts they ordered.

Anyway sometime later they say can't get part except from dealer. So I had thought that they should fit original shock that I took off. Gave them that, then much later again they say it has been damaged taking it off (I did have to hit it with a hammer to get it off) and can't be used. Original shock spring carrier is not welded to damper. So surprised it rotating should be a problem.

In the end they say car may have to stay with them and they would fit dealer shock. So I said we needed car and they should fit "wrong" shock back on again. This put state of car pretty much back to how it was when I brought it into them.

He drew up bill for 79 quid. I was expecting him to try and charge more, due to the 6+ hours they spent on it. However as it was broken down as 30 for tracking and 49 labour I didn't argue.

But as they chose to strip it down before getting parts, I feel I shouldn't have to pay anything. In fact we should be compensated for waiting so long and the hassle.

To cap it off, the invoice was in Kwik Fit leaflet, stating if you have new shocks fitted, and you are not happy with them, bring car back within 14 days and they will refit them and refund your money. So perhaps I can get them on that. Letter to Head Office me thinks.

The drop link (citroen original) Is a torx not an allen fitting (cant remember size sorry)
Are you sure? Bugger. No wonder I keep knackering these things!
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#8
Yes the originals were definatly torx the small end of the torx driver in the tool kit I think the replacement had to flat on the backs as per OP
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#9
(11-04-2013, 02:11 PM)Husqyman Wrote:  Yes the originals were definatly torx the small end of the torx driver in the tool kit I think the replacement had to flat on the backs as per OP
I think the after market ones I have fitted are allen.
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#10
Got response (eventually) from Kwik Fat. Area Manager reckoned manager charged me less than he could have for "the work they did". Wouldn't listen to fact that I told them to check shocks would take cups before fitting etc.

Anyway went to local GSF. Again their shocks do not allow the citroen cups to be fitted.

So. I assume the following. Please correct if wrong.
Cups were fitted because springs were from batch known to be dodgey. Fitting new springs means you don't need cups.

Now I know 2 people at work that have had broken springs, one Ford Focus 2005, one Seat 2004. None had cups fitted. In one case spring broke and wasn't noticed until MOT. In the Seat case it burst the tyre. Luckily no one hurt.

I assumed all cars to have these cups fitted. I have been looking under wheel arches of cars when out walking dogs. Got some strange looks.

Anyway. Appears later cars do not have these cups fitted.

I wonder what would have happened if I had had a shock fail, before the spring. I would have taken it to a garage. They, presumably, would have changed the shocks to these new ones, but on the old springs. then found the cups don't fit. Then what? ?
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