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Dash Horn Switch
#1
Hi guys

Van is still off road, failed 2 MOT's but am at the last hurdle,
2nd MOT picked up snapped f/o/s spring along with Horn not working fixed all faults from 1st MOT and spring on 2nd with my own blood sweat and tears, its just the horn now which I've had someone have a look at who says no power to horn. I have had limited time on this and has dragged on, so am looking to just fit a Dash horn switch temporary till I have more time to chase main fault.

Firstly can someone tell me if this is the correct Horn circuit for my van (19D 2002 MK2)? taken from Haynes but simplified for my own use.
[Image: do48w5.jpg]

If so can anyone please direct me as to running new wires from where to where?

My first thought was to connect switch from B17 to 250 cancelling out comms but then thought if problem is before B17 that would be waste of time but would, let me know if its the comms unit at fault but as i said just looking to running new wire temporary would be best.

Horn was working before comms change and has been sent off to Bradford guy and returned same issue.

I don't have same issue as others saying horn works when key in but no ignition, I have no horn period and can chase that bugger down at a later date.

I am not savey with multi metres but I do have one, cheap at that and to be honest someone already tested as far as I know.

Also bit confused as I cant find F17 in interior fuse box, which is why I am asking if this circuit is correct for my vehicle or if I have a later model version diagram?

I already have the bumper off so have full access to horn, hopefully can get time in next few days if people can throw some info my way.

thanks in advance :thumbsup:
Reply
#2
We had the intermittent horn issue. Worked with the ignition off but not with ignition on as in MOT test conditions.
Our local garage recommended cheapest solution was to fit a cheap aftermarket horn (any second hand one would have done) under bonnet with new switch on the dash as it saved the work required to take the bumper off.
I have learn't that Citroens and electrics seem not to be the best of friends. Good luck with your fix.
Reply
#3
:thumbsup:
(05-12-2013, 10:04 PM)rambling_ned Wrote:  We had the intermittent horn issue. Worked with the ignition off but not with ignition on as in MOT test conditions.
Our local garage recommended cheapest solution was to fit a cheap aftermarket horn (any second hand one would have done) under bonnet with new switch on the dash as it saved the work required to take the bumper off.
I have learn't that Citroens and electrics seem not to be the best of friends. Good luck with your fix.

(05-12-2013, 09:50 PM)mitumatu Wrote:  Hi guys

Van is still off road, failed 2 MOT's but am at the last hurdle,
2nd MOT picked up snapped f/o/s spring along with Horn not working fixed all faults from 1st MOT and spring on 2nd with my own blood sweat and tears, its just the horn now which I've had someone have a look at who says no power to horn. I have had limited time on this and has dragged on, so am looking to just fit a Dash horn switch temporary till I have more time to chase main fault.

Firstly can someone tell me if this is the correct Horn circuit for my van (19D 2002 MK2)? taken from Haynes but simplified for my own use.
[Image: do48w5.jpg]

If so can anyone please direct me as to running new wires from where to where?

My first thought was to connect switch from B17 to 250 cancelling out comms but then thought if problem is before B17 that would be waste of time but would, let me know if its the comms unit at fault but as i said just looking to running new wire temporary would be best.

Horn was working before comms change and has been sent off to Bradford guy and returned same issue.

I don't have same issue as others saying horn works when key in but no ignition, I have no horn period and can chase that bugger down at a later date.

I am not savey with multi metres but I do have one, cheap at that and to be honest someone already tested as far as I know.

Also bit confused as I cant find F17 in interior fuse box, which is why I am asking if this circuit is correct for my vehicle or if I have a later model version diagram?

I already have the bumper off so have full access to horn, hopefully can get time in next few days if people can throw some info my way.

thanks in advance :thumbsup:
After digging around on the forum it looks like for my van M59 that the Horn fuse is actually F13 Engine fuse Box so diagram above must be wrong.

If anyone can possibly share a correct horn wiring diagram for 19D, MK2, M59, I would appreciate itIcon_biggrin
Reply
#4
my Haynes says engine fuse box fuse C and interior fuse box fuse 7 for the horn on early models(?). For later models engine fuse box fuse 8 and fuse 17 in interior fuse box. both diagrams show the earth at the l/hand wing.

It dosent show the wiring going through the comms unit.!

But it does say "typical horn" as if its not exactly sure what the circuit is !

Rustscrat is your man as he is an ace on these electrical problems.
[Image: keyjwi.jpg]
[+] 1 user says Thank You to brodfather11 for this post
Reply
#5
Try running an earth wire from the steering column to another metal part of the vehicle. If you have a search on the forums you'll find a few posts on this subject and sometimes this simple fix cures it!
Reply
#6
thanks for all the input , problem solved after finding correct fuse box fuse allocation for my vehicle.

The fuse was missing from slot 13 engine fuse box, I did remove box casing when chasing wires for solved airbag fault but did not remove fuses as I said horn was working before van off road 3 months ago.

Little disappointed my friends recommended "mechanic" did not pick up on fuse but then again maybe conflicting fuse allocation information was his reason also.

JOB DONE :woop:

Fuse Info:

Electrical features of Berlingo M59 (Mk2).

The BERLINGO 2 possesses an electrical structure incorporating :
BSI : built-in systems interface (dual-CAN, CAN)
BSM : engine relay unit (or engine fusebox)
PCF: "Maxi" fuses box under BSM
COM 2000: Switch module at the steering wheel
multifunction screen

See picture below


Image has been scaled down 35% (400x235). Click this bar to view original image (615x360). Click image to open in new window.

[Image: elfeat.png]



BSI Built-in systems interface
BSM Engine relay unit
CV00 Switch module at the steering wheel
0004 Instrument panel
1320 Engine ECU
6570 Airbag ECU
7215 multifunction screen
7800 Stability control ECU (ESP)
8080 air conditioning ECU
8410 Radio
8415 Compact disc changer
8500 Navigation ECU
8600 Anti-theft alarm system

BSI (built-in systems interface) made by Siemens (Ja, Ja! Siemens) Icon_smile


Image has been scaled down 35% (400x235). Click this bar to view original image (615x360). Click image to open in new window.

[Image: bsi.png]


Fuses in BSI:
F1 15A Rear wiper (hinged doors) , 12 V socket(Modutop)
F4 20A radio , Instrument panel , multifunction screen , Switch module at the steering wheel
F5 15A Alarm siren
F6 10A Diagnostic socket
F7 15A alarm
F9 30A Heated seats , blower (Modutop)
F10 40A Heated rear screen , Heated mirrors
F11 15A Rear wiper
F12 30A sunroof , Electric windows
F14 10A VAN network , Switch module at the steering wheel
F15 15A VAN network , Instrument panel , radio , multifunction screen
F16 30A Electric door locking
F20 10A Rear right brake light
F21 15A Rear left brake light
F22 20A Lighter , 12 V sockets , electric rear view mirrors , interior lamp , Map reading lamp

BSM or engine compartment fuse box. This type of BSM applies only for petrol engines. For M59s with diesel engines i'll post info a little bit later

The engine fuse box protects and distributes the supplies of various functions by means of relays, fuses and maxi-fuses.
The engine fusebox consists of two associated modules :
Module 1 or just BSM: Module incorporating the maxi fuses Module 2 or just PCF: Module incorporating an electronic card, the fuses and the relays The engine fuse box module 1 provides, from the battery positive cable :
The distribution and protection by maxi fuses of the electrical supplies +BAT to components linked by the principal harness
The battery+ electrical power supply of module 2. See picture below


Image has been scaled down 35% (400x235). Click this bar to view original image (615x360). Click image to open in new window.

[Image: bsml.png]


"a" : Module 1.
"b" : Module 2.
"c" : Product identification label.

Fuses in BSM:

F1 reversing lamps (10A)
F2 Fuel pump supply(15A)
F3 Anti-lock braking system unit supply (ABR) or ESP (10A)
F4 Engine ECU (10A)
F5 Unused -
F6 Front foglamps (15A)
F7 Headlamp wash pump (20A)
F8 Main relay of the engine ECU (20A)
F9 LH dipped beam (15A)
F10 RH dipped beam (15A)
F11 LH main beam (10A)
F12 RH main beam (10A)
F13 Horn (15A)
F14 Windscreen and rear screen washer pump (10A)
F15 Engine ECU actuator, oxygen sensor heating, supply to petrol injectors, ignition coils, canister discharge electrovalve (petrol vapour from the tank) (30A)
F16 Air pump supply (30A)
F17 Low and high speed front wipers (30A)
F18 Air conditioning blower (40A)

PCF or fuse box under BSM. Contains only "Maxi" fuses.
The engine fuse box module 1 provides, from the battery positive cable :
The distribution and protection by maxi fuses of the electrical supplies +BAT to components linked by the principal harness
The battery+ electrical power supply of module 2


MF1 Supply to the fan unit
MF2 Anti-lock braking system unit supply (ABR)
MF3 Anti-lock braking system unit supply (ABR) or ESP
MF4 BSI supply
MF5 BSI supply
MF6 Additional heating supply
MF7 Supply of ignition
MF8 Air conditioning or passenger compartment air blower supply

(06-12-2013, 09:17 AM)brodfather11 Wrote:  my Haynes says engine fuse box fuse C and interior fuse box fuse 7 for the horn on early models(?). For later models engine fuse box fuse 8 and fuse 17 in interior fuse box. both diagrams show the earth at the l/hand wing.

It dosent show the wiring going through the comms unit.!

But it does say "typical horn" as if its not exactly sure what the circuit is !

Rustscrat is your man as he is an ace on these electrical problems.
[Image: keyjwi.jpg]

Thanks for your input :thumbsup:
[+] 1 user says Thank You to mitumatu for this post
Reply
#7
Well done for sorting it, I'll post this in case anyone else searches for a similar problem. Confusedalut:

   
2006 2.0hdi 600 with bench seat.  Cool
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Rustscrat for this post
Reply
#8
(07-12-2013, 10:42 AM)Rustscrat Wrote:  Well done for sorting it, I'll post this in case anyone else searches for a similar problem. Confusedalut:
Thanks Rustscrats
Lucky I didn't start cutting and running wires for no reason at all.

Good to have Van up to scratch,everything on Mot was correct as I saw and fixed all faults myself so I take back my ranting at MOT guys back, just suspicious about the Horn fuse where it went.

Booked in for MOT Wednesday third time lucky, fingers crossed
Reply
#9
Good luck & thanks for the info.:thumbsup:Confusedalut:
Strawberry flavoured windows  Dodgy
Reply
#10
(06-12-2013, 07:32 AM)mitumatu Wrote:  :thumbsup:
(05-12-2013, 10:04 PM)rambling_ned Wrote:  We had the intermittent horn issue. Worked with the ignition off but not with ignition on as in MOT test conditions.
Our local garage recommended cheapest solution was to fit a cheap aftermarket horn (any second hand one would have done) under bonnet with new switch on the dash as it saved the work required to take the bumper off.
I have learn't that Citroens and electrics seem not to be the best of friends. Good luck with your fix.

(05-12-2013, 09:50 PM)mitumatu Wrote:  Hi guys

Van is still off road, failed 2 MOT's but am at the last hurdle,
2nd MOT picked up snapped f/o/s spring along with Horn not working fixed all faults from 1st MOT and spring on 2nd with my own blood sweat and tears, its just the horn now which I've had someone have a look at who says no power to horn. I have had limited time on this and has dragged on, so am looking to just fit a Dash horn switch temporary till I have more time to chase main fault.

Firstly can someone tell me if this is the correct Horn circuit for my van (19D 2002 MK2)? taken from Haynes but simplified for my own use.
[Image: do48w5.jpg]

If so can anyone please direct me as to running new wires from where to where?

My first thought was to connect switch from B17 to 250 cancelling out comms but then thought if problem is before B17 that would be waste of time but would, let me know if its the comms unit at fault but as i said just looking to running new wire temporary would be best.

Horn was working before comms change and has been sent off to Bradford guy and returned same issue.

I don't have same issue as others saying horn works when key in but no ignition, I have no horn period and can chase that bugger down at a later date.

I am not savey with multi metres but I do have one, cheap at that and to be honest someone already tested as far as I know.

Also bit confused as I cant find F17 in interior fuse box, which is why I am asking if this circuit is correct for my vehicle or if I have a later model version diagram?

I already have the bumper off so have full access to horn, hopefully can get time in next few days if people can throw some info my way.

thanks in advance :thumbsup:
After digging around on the forum it looks like for my van M59 that the Horn fuse is actually F13 Engine fuse Box so diagram above must be wrong.

If anyone can possibly share a correct horn wiring diagram for 19D, MK2, M59, I would appreciate itIcon_biggrin

hello i am sorry to hear you are still having problems after sending your unit to me to for repair, get a bit of wire ans try short the two pin on the grey connector behind the airbag if that dont work ring me on 07599587119 because i dunno when i will be back on here
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